Apollo FW800 vs Thunderbolt and cable quality

D

DFauvre

New Member
1. I used an audio quest FW800 cable instead of a standard inexpensive FW800 cable and there was a significant audible difference.
2. If cables make a difference, does the Apple FW800 to Thunderbolt adapter change audio quality? Hard to justify running a $2,500 converter through a $25 adapter...
3. Does the Thunderbolt sound better than FW800? As the Audio Quest cable sounded better than a standard cheap FW800 cable?
4. Does the make and quality of the Thunderbolt cable matter as did the make and quality of the FW800 cable?

Are people happy with the Thunderbolt card? It seems extremely overprice for what should have been built in for current Mac use.
 
easteelreath

easteelreath

Active Member
Theoretically, all digital audio transfers should be the same no matter the data path. A zero-one-zero bit pattern passing down a firewire cable or thunderbolt cable of any kind is the same at one end as the other.

However, respected audiophiles say they can hear differences in many things that I can't.
 
S

Syncamorea

Established Member
Hoenerbr said:
Hey just curious, did you buy the Green colored marker to color the edges of CD's to make them sound better?
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Do you apply the green marker clockwise or counterclockwise? (I'm in the Northern hemisphere if that matters)
 
D

DFauvre

New Member
Syncamorea said:
Do you apply the green marker clockwise or counterclockwise? (I'm in the Northern hemisphere if that matters)
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Do you have nothing better to do than cowardly insult people online? Really nothing more cowardly and cruel. Gee, I know, I'm going to go into someone's thread and insult them! Cool! huh, huh, huh... Get a life.

As to audio examples, I don't have the time, but as I find with many high end cables the soundstage is better, and the reviews of the cable were exactly my experience. I don't really care about the it's all 0s and 1s bullshit, who cares if you can hear a difference you can. I can hear the difference between a highend USB cable out of my Axe II as well. I prefer the midline AudioQuest cables.
 
S

Syncamorea

Established Member
DFauvre said:
Do you have nothing better to do than cowardly insult people online?
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Cowardly? Sir, my bathtub vortex is NOT a coward!
 
J

j2fly

Member
Dfauvre - If *you* hear a difference, then by all means roll with that cable! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and while I don't think I'd hear a difference (I'm in the digital is digital camp), if it keeps you happy while making music then that's what's important. It's also easy to forget that 'the internet' is made up of actual people with real feelings and hopefully Syncamorea's comment won't deter you from continuing to share and learn from the forums here. There's lots of good info, even if sometimes it's laced with a hurtful of off color comment. Though, your response was a bit aggressive in it's own right...so keep that in mind too. It's usually better to just ignore than engage.

Hope to see you around more!
Jon
 
S

Syncamorea

Established Member
DFauvre said:
3. Does the Thunderbolt sound better than FW800? As the Audio Quest cable sounded better than a standard cheap FW800 cable?
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For recording the crackling of a campfire, you can't do better than good old, cheap firewire cables. For recording thunder and lightning, I prefer the awesomeness of the Apple Thunderbolt cable.
 
S

Syncamorea

Established Member
j2fly said:
...Syncamorea's comment won't deter you from continuing to share and learn from the forums here. There's lots of good info, even if sometimes it's laced with a hurtful of off color comment. Though, your response was a bit aggressive in it's own right...
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Actually, if you look at my first post to this thread, I wasn't responding to Dfauvre. I was trying to get clarification of the green marker technique from Hoenerbr.
 
Kcatthedog

Kcatthedog

Hall of Fame Member
Lets chill

Syncamorea said:
Actually, if you look at my first post to this thread, I wasn't responding to Dfauvre. I was trying to get clarification of the green marker technique from Hoenerbr.
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We will never resolve the "do you hear it " debate to each their own !
 
Hoenerbr

Hoenerbr

Hall of Fame Member
DFauvre,

I'm sorry if I made you feel bad! I want you to feel comfotable in this Forum.
We are really nice people and generally we help each other! Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I could understand a better digital cable can transfer data with less error correction involved!
I guess the question is Error correction and the quality of the algorithm involved!
I guess that's where you might be hearing the difference
Anyway, I don't have golden ears! Perhaps you do! If so you've picked the right plugin company!
Again sorry if I started any contraversy !
 
woodyreed

woodyreed

Established Member
DFauvre said:
2. If cables make a difference, does the Apple FW800 to Thunderbolt adapter change audio quality? Hard to justify running a $2,500 converter through a $25 adapter...
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There is no such cable. Only the reverse of that. TB to FW800.
 
n1kk666

n1kk666

Established Member
These are my conclusions on cables:

- Audio cables can definitely have an effect on the sound quality, even if it is negligible sometimes. There will probably be a noticeable difference between very cheap and very good quality mic or instrument cables. Length of the cable run will have an effect as well.
- I find it plausible that optical cables can have an effect on jitter, which in turn can affect audio quality, but my impression is that this would only happen with a cable that is damaged. I don't think a properly working cheap optical cable will have any difference in sound quality in a more expensive one.
- It is impossible for data cables to affect sound quality. I suppose it may be possible for a cable to affect data transfer rates and performance, but there is no way sound quality is affected.

Just because you hear something doesn't mean it is actually there. Confirmation bias is a well known problem in the audio world. You will be doing yourself a favor by being aware of it: Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is worth paying a little extra for cables that are more durable though.
 
S

Syncamorea

Established Member
n1kk666 said:
- Audio cables can definitely have an effect on the sound quality, even if it is negligible sometimes.
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Don't misunderstand me - I'm not recommending that anyone go spend thousands of dollars on platinum interconnects or any of that. BUT! I worked with a high end monitor designer that specialized in crossover design and he dug deep into the cable controversy. This was in the late 80's and Bruce Brisson of MIT Cables really started a shit storm and it seemed innocent enough at the time (other than the astronomical cost and having to manage cables the diameter of a garden hose). Brisson wrote an article about cables acting as filters and the physics is correct. Cables do in fact effect analog signals because they have impedance and capacitance but as you say, the actual effect can be minimal. If you look at the advancements in high end scientific instrumentation over the last 20 years, a significant component has been in cable design that allows ultra-fast switching to be reliably executed. So I've been involved extensively on the science side and have seen the measurable benefit, for example in the field of accurate mass analysis in mass spectrometry. And due to being in and out of pro audio, I've been in the listening rooms of fanatics that literally spend tens of thousands of dollars on interconnects. Some of these people think an interconnect has more of an effect than their turntable cartridge or their speakers and I'm sorry but I'm not convinced.
 
n1kk666

n1kk666

Established Member
Syncamorea said:
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not recommending that anyone go spend thousands of dollars on platinum interconnects or any of that. BUT! I worked with a high end monitor designer that specialized in crossover design and he dug deep into the cable controversy. This was in the late 80's and Bruce Brisson of MIT Cables really started a shit storm and it seemed innocent enough at the time (other than the astronomical cost and having to manage cables the diameter of a garden hose). Brisson wrote an article about cables acting as filters and the physics is correct. Cables do in fact effect analog signals because they have impedance and capacitance but as you say, the actual effect can be minimal. If you look at the advancements in high end scientific instrumentation over the last 20 years, a significant component has been in cable design that allows ultra-fast switching to be reliably executed. So I've been involved extensively on the science side and have seen the measurable benefit, for example in the field of accurate mass analysis in mass spectrometry. And due to being in and out of pro audio, I've been in the listening rooms of fanatics that literally spend tens of thousands of dollars on interconnects. Some of these people think an interconnect has more of an effect than their turntable cartridge or their speakers and I'm sorry but I'm not convinced.
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You'll get no argument from me about that. That is basically what i've concluded from my own experience/research, which is clearly not as extensive as yours.
 
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