Apollo 16 silverface vs blackface AD shootout

F

fready

Active Member
Hi everybody.
I've been wanting to do this test for a while.
First a lil about myself. I'm a professional recording engineer/musician in Norway. Have been for 25 years.
I bought my Apollo silverface a year ago. And I've been superhappy with it!
When UA announced earlier this year that they had upgraded the converters, I was curious how much they would make a difference.
I was mostly curious about the AD conversion.
Because I don't use summing and I use the digital outputs on my Barefoot Micromain 27 2nd gen.
A lil about the test:
I recorded in 24 bit 96k, and the instruments and mics are identical.
So are the mic positions of course.
I play all the instruments.
The drums and ac guitars are recorded with no plugins, but the lapsteel are recorded with the Marshall Plexi and Roland RE-201 and the bass with the Ampeg plugin.
No eq on the tracks or the bus.

I am not going to reveal right away which recording is the blackface or silverface, 'cause I want your "uncolored" opinion.
Thanks!

Audio:
https://app.box.com/s/lucjosdrbb0oe1774jndkkmvv8uavbw1

Pic of the session:
https://app.box.com/s/n01vt6ujtxlvjknjoj9xsnb2tvk6fz7w
 
Eric Dahlberg

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Takk Fready!

I'll look forward to listening to these.
 
tomtama

tomtama

Hall of Fame Member
Well since I have to guess, I'd say the first take is the BF Apollo. To me it sounds more open and 3D.
 
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LixiSoft

LixiSoft

Active Member
I preferred the first one also, for all the same reasons. Sounded great too!
 
DanButsu

DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
Definitely the first one is more open, more detailed and also punchier. And I LU matched the files to -24LUFS (they were really close already though)!

Damn, now I need new converters. Thanks a lot Fready :p
 
exoslime

exoslime

Venerated Member
thanks for the great comparison :)
just gave it a quick listen, (i´m at work at and listended through my bose inear headphones) both examples do sound great and well played.

the first one sounds a bit more punchy and present to me, but what i really noticed on that headphones (they are quite revealing, but not from an audophile point of view) is not the huge sonically difference, but the difference in the performances, it sounded to me you may hit the drums a bit harder on the first example and also the drumperformance on the first take is better and more tight and spot on. especially on the beginning of the songs, it seems that the snare has more crack on the first example which gives the impression to me that the first sounds "better", just because of that detail, as on the drumkit, especially on the snare i heard the most differences between both examples

but i´m going to relisten to those great samples at home in the next couple of days through my DAW and monitoring to get a different view on it, i´m very curious now

what i´m interested in, how are the levels on the single tracks, do they have the same signal loudness
as what i can imagine, that using different interfaces might having slightly different incoming levels and that of course would be also affecting the overal impression.
 
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M

monkeyxx

Member
The first one sounds better to me, fuller. The second one is a bit more thin with a crispness to it, pretty nice but I'm missing the fullness of the first clip.
 
F

fready

Active Member
Thanks for the reply, guys! You all guessed right. The first one is the blackface, second one silver.
I agree too. The BF sounds better.
There's not a huge difference, but enough for me to pull the trigger on the BF.
And the DA really sounds ALOT better. I can hear that in my hearback system.
Also thank you Universal Audio for making great products. Wow!
 
tomtama

tomtama

Hall of Fame Member
As a Silver Face owner I was hoping we were all wrong....oh well!! :D
 
Kcatthedog

Kcatthedog

Hall of Fame Member
That is the thing, while the difference is not huge, it is apparent.

It would be interesting to hear a silver face played back through the BF DA, i.e., a 2 apollo system SF and BF.

I couldn't afford to keep my SF and buy a BF , so can't test this.
 
Eric Dahlberg

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Thank you, Fready, for doing this test. The improvements in the BF's sound are pretty much the same as the improvements that I got by upgrading my Silver Apollo 16's opamps (basically the BLA mod). I think you've just saved me a whole lot of money! :)
 
tomtama

tomtama

Hall of Fame Member
Looks like there may be a BLA mod in my Apollo Quads furture!!!:D
 
DanButsu

DanButsu

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
tomtama said:
Looks like there may be a BLA mod in my Apollo Quads furture!!!:D
Click to expand...
Thinking the same. UA should offer a BF upgrade and cash in on it instead of BLA! Nudge nudge hint hint ;)
 
tomtama

tomtama

Hall of Fame Member
Since I like the input/output options better in my SF Apollo than a BF Apollo and I'm a Windows user, the BLA mod route seems to be a great way to breath new life into my Apollo. I'm going to wait to see what the UA surprise for Windows users is this fall and decide then.
 
Q

Quint

Venerated Member
But these are different takes? Subtleties in the performance between the two takes are going to influence decisions more than any difference between the new and old Apollo.

Also, the acoustic guitar appears to be a little louder relative to the drums, because of how they were played and/or mixed, in the second take. This seems to be masking the high end of the drums somewhat and may be at least partially the cause for diminished soundstage and openness perceived by some. I'd be curious to hear a comparison of just the drums by themselves.
 
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F

fready

Active Member
Quint said:
I'd be curious to hear a comparison of just the drums by themselves.
Click to expand...
Here ya go, Quint
https://app.box.com/s/fsipky7zlnx5c4h4ogz1kg700og6o4ns

It's important to say that I haven't paid for the BF yet.
I don't want to spend $3000 on something that doesn't sound better.
If I just strum a guitar into my $99 M-audio, it sounds as good as the Apollo 16.
It's when you pile tracks you really hear the difference between good and bad audio interfaces.
At least that's my experience.
I've been working with the BF all day, and I'm a 100% confident that it's a step up from the SF.
Both AD and DA.
 
simonjewel

simonjewel

Established Member
fready said:
Here ya go, Quint
https://app.box.com/s/fsipky7zlnx5c4h4ogz1kg700og6o4ns

It's important to say that I haven't paid for the BF yet.
I don't want to spend $3000 on something that doesn't sound better.
If I just strum a guitar into my $99 M-audio, it sounds as good as the Apollo 16.
It's when you pile tracks you really hear the difference between good and bad audio interfaces.
At least that's my experience.
I've been working with the BF all day, and I'm a 100% confident that it's a step up from the SF.
Both AD and DA.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this Fready! I have a question, I have a 16 quad silverface with a thunderbolt card built in although I have to connect my Apollo via firewire because my mac pro does not have thunderbolt. Is it possible to buy a second BF thunderbolt Apollo 16 and daisy chain it via the thunderbolt port on my SF?

Thanks :)
 
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