"Universal Audio's obviously gone in a different direction"

Rich Williams, designer of many UA products and the man behind Burl, had some interesting comments about UA in the new Tape Op:

"I was lucky enough to create the 2192. I listened to every single capacitor and integrated circuit op-amp on the market. I really wanted a converter that stood up to the 1176 and the 2-610...I ended up designing a multi-channel mic preamp for UA called the 8110, and then the 4110. John had left the company, and I was the sole hardware designer, both analog and digital, for UA. Universal Audio's obviously gone in a different direction: the 2192 is no longer offered, and neither is the 8110 or the 4110."

What Rich Williams is politely saying is UA used to be a company for pro's, and now it's for hobbyists. There had long been rumors that UA was forced to stop selling the 2192 because Rich designed it and left to start Burl and he had some sort of non-compete clause in their contract. Now he reveals they voluntarily stopped producing these pro product lines, in advance of introducing the Apollo line with far inferior sonics.

I guess there's more money in that, and all the tone freaks have left UA. If I'm not mistaken, they created fewer new plugins last year than in any other year. Tough times for UA users who want plugins that are nearly as good as hardware, interesting old vintage gear that no one else thinks to model, and new hardware that is as great as the old UA classics. Good times for users who want GUIs designed for Retina and new ways of plugging things into your computer and Autotune.

Sorry for the rant - I love the positive tone of this forum, but wanted to put my vote in for the old UA model.

far inferior ?

sorry I think your analysis would benefit from a broader perspective

the 2192 is a great 2 channel box; are you prepared to pay 24 grand for an equivalently speced 8 channel box ? I am being silly cus of course there are lots of 8 channel options: the burl mothership ect.

but what prevents anyone from buying the old gear if that is what they want and building a hybrid system, you know kind of like yours ?

I see it as the best of both worlds; current and buy the older gear you like !

p.s. I'll just email Jacquire and tell him to talk to you about getting "pro" gear advice

I even liked the old Webzine much more than the "Blog" and the entire new site, The old Webzine was way more informational and clearly geared towards true audio geeks, unlike the new site's content, which screams hipster-friendly more than anything else.

Aren't as many pros around as there used to be.

Cass Anawaty said:

Aren't as many pros around as there used to be.

Click to expand...

Yup. And don't get me wrong, I love punk rock DIY philosophy and I'm sure the Apollo line gives a lot of people great options. I just hope that side of the business subsidizes the old UAD model, not replaces it. I could actually be interested in an expensive pro version of Apollo with converters and preamps of the type UA used to make, but I guess they don't want to make the regular Apollos seem budget.

calimike said:

Yup. And don't get me wrong, I love punk rock DIY philosophy and I'm sure the Apollo line gives a lot of people great options. I just hope that side of the business subsidizes the old UAD model, not replaces it. I could actually be interested in an expensive pro version of Apollo with converters and preamps of the type UA used to make, but I guess they don't want to make the regular Apollos seem budget.

Click to expand...

Send your Apollo to BLA. $795 to trick out your merely serviceable converters to sound like the converters UA 'use to make'...and done.

Kcatthedog said:

far inferior ?
sorry I think your analysis would benefit from a broader perspective

Click to expand...

Talking about broader perspective; kcat, you had an Apollo and 2192 at the same time, then sold your 2192 for a burl and now you have a BLA updated Apollo only!

What say you of the difference between them all?

• Difference between Apollo vs 2192
• 2192 vs burl
• Stock Apollo vs BLA
• other observations?

I can run ,,,

DanButsu said:

Talking about broader perspective; kcat, you had an Apollo and 2192 at the same time, then sold your 2192 for a burl and now you have a BLA updated Apollo only!

What say you of the difference between them all?

• Difference between Apollo vs 2192
• 2192 vs burl
• Stock Apollo vs BLA
• other observations?

Click to expand...

But can't hide

A bla modded apollo is flatter and has less mid range bloom so i think more accurate


the burl is like a 2192 as it was designed by the person referenced here to a higher to a higher price point and has transformer ls ahead of the converters and you can choose how much you can drive the transformers

I preferred the burl feeling it had more resolution and more range of sound: you could make the b2 sound like the 2192 but not the other way around

The 2192 has a more classic warmer analog sound and I thought the burl more contempoary.

I think I have clips up at soundcloud kcatthedog not perfectly level matched but you get the idea.

Personally I would buy another b2 before another 2192.

Kcatthedog said:

But can't hide

A bla modded apollo is flatter and has less mid range bloom so i think more accurate


the burl is like a 2192 as it was designed by the person referenced here to a higher to a higher price point and has transformer ls ahead of the converters and you can choose how much you can drive the transformers

I preferred the burl feeling it had more resolution and more range of sound: you could make the b2 sound like the 2192 but not the other way around

The 2192 has a more classic warmer analog sound and I thought the burl more contempoary.

I think I have clips up at soundcloud kcatthedog not perfectly level matched but you get the idea.

Personally I would buy another b2 before another 2192.

Click to expand...

Were those clips off vinyl? Hard to tell from those, LOL. Do you track guitars, and if so any thoughts on Burl vs 2192? In Tape Op Rich was talking about how he added the transformers b/c he wasn't happy with the harmonics on how the 2192 tracks guitars...which makes me want a Burl even more than I already did. I've been planning to get one on demo, although when I do if I agree with your description of it as more contemporary compared to the 2192, I might actually just stick with what I've got.

Thanks for the run down kcat. Like most I've been intrigued by the Burls and love the modular approach to add as you grow!

Hot question; is the BLA Apollo mod worth the $800 in your opinion?

My humble opinion is that I really don't mind a company like UA being "smart" and taking "advantage" of the current industry situation by producing different products and catering to a new user base. This should only make UA stronger and in a better position in the near future to continue to create higher end niche products catering to the diminishing pro market. As long as they don't get lost down that path and never return

I hear you but you can plug any high end converters into the digital ins and outs on the apollo and then you have the best of both worlds.... My lynx hilo is handling all the AD/DA and clocking for me and it sounds so good you can really understand why the hilo scores so highly on AD/DA loopback tests. The dang thing has 2 converters per channel on the main outs and its just so pleasurable. For my use, and I mainly use 2 inputs at a time doing my tracking for songwriting and solo stuff, it doesn't make sense to spend 800 on the BLA mod vs the price of a hilo which can be found for 1,600 used on ebay. Now if you are using more channels at once that might not be the case... Now with console 2.0 I'm excited to add another apollo quad and use the adat with flex routing to "stack" some channels for fx heavy vocals and whatnot... For me it makes a great live rig and its all about making the performance that much more immersive and having each song have a very specific sound design. I wish they had an apollo "pro" with better conversion as well but for now the digital io makes a great workaround.

hmm,,,

let me be diplomatic and say I think that is personal, in my room, my low mid and bass is hard to hear clearly so I appreciate the bla mod sound

if I had to do it again would I ?? jury would be out cus there are other things one can buy for that money.

I am as you know lined up to get a very sweet homebuilt replacement for the burl and dbox that will be around the price of the bla mod, so value and cost are relative.

Kcatthedog said:

hmm,,,

let me be diplomatic and say I think that is personal, in my room, my low mid and bass is hard to hear clearly so I appreciate the bla mod sound

if I had to do it again would I ?? jury would be out cus there are other things one can buy for that money.

I am as you know lined up to get a very sweet homebuilt replacement for the burl and dbox that will be around the price of the bla mod, so value and cost are relative.

Click to expand...

Really? your on the fence as to whether or not you'd do the BLA mod again? I am someone who has some growing interest in sending my Apollo off to BLA but now you, someone who has the mods, is not sure if you'd do it again if given the opportunity?...huh...

Is it really that subtle of an improvement, or maybe not such an improvement but simply different?

Ehhhh ... I disagree a different direction.They have recently done plenty of emulations of classic, desirable studio gear - Neve 1073, Varimu, Culture Vulture, MK II's etc - and they do have a "guitar section"on amps that pedals are weak in representation - so rounding out those seems reasonable. And the Console 2 features seem desirable from workflow/modularity/ease of use perspective that both pro and home user could enjoy. And the expansion concept serves a heavy user of dsp and I/O as opposed to a home user needs.

It must be tough balancing out the surveys, visits to studios, staff preferences, thinking where the biggest marketplace is, leveraging strengths, being innovative etc.

sjgam said:

They have recently done plenty of emulations of classic, desirable studio gear - Neve 1073, Varimu, Culture Vulture, MK II's etc

Click to expand...

That's my crack! I need more than a few a year! Give me real console emulations and not this unison stuff, creative idea though it may be.

I think it's as simple as UA used to be a boutique analog company that started offering the only plugins that could compete at the time. That part caught on and dominated the demand. Analog hardware sales is always a somewhat limited market, while analog modeled run from inexpensive cards is something everyone was able to get into.

It it was indeed a focus shift to keep up with the demand.

The old webzine was really cool, in-depth, and always gave us a glimpse at what was coming up. I miss it too, but it doesn't really fit with the mix anymore. I suspect they're moving exponentionally more digital products than analog these days. UA is hip. They're in touch with the market and focus on the demand.

Kcatthedog said:

hmm,,,

in my room, my low mid and bass is hard to hear clearly so I appreciate the bla mod sound

Click to expand...

I really doubt that the BLA mod does anything for your room acoustics........

I'm very skeptical about this mod; perhaps it makes a measurable difference, with electronic test equipment, but an audible difference....?

Human aural memory being poor as it is, as well as expectation bias, you cant be sure after getting the unit back after weeks or a month or so that the sound is improved.

Music | Axiology

I've seen a BLA mod's test results by someone whom I trust. Didn't fare well at all, and that was confirmation based on what they were hearing. In other words, what was measurable wasn't an improvement.

Whether people dig it or not is a whole 'nuther topic, like external clocking.

Matt Hepworth said:

The old webzine was really cool, in-depth, and always gave us a glimpse at what was coming up. I miss it too, but it doesn't really fit with the mix anymore. I suspect they're moving exponentionally more digital products than analog these days. UA is hip. They're in touch with the market and focus on the demand.

Click to expand...

I honestly think they make enough money from their users to support two different "tiers" of products (they could be pushing Apollos and 2192s if they wanted). It's kind of like in Golf, where you have companies like Wilson making their Wilson Staff line that cost wise is up there with many of the pro lines, but then they also have $150 "Wilson" starter sets. UA has sort of always been a "boutique" company up until recently, really; I bet there would be people willing to buy 610 consoles if they decided to re-make them. Instead, many of the "boutique" users they had have moved on to buying gear from boutique companies like Burl.

Somehow though, I see someone in a suit over at UA and a PowerPoint presentation showing comparisons between "boutique" manufacturing (using the best components) and M-Audio/Avid and how bang-for-the-buck cheap manufacturing leads to higher profits.