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Do Pro's Use Sub-Woofers for Monitoring?

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sjgam

Venerated Member
Know its not a UAD specific question but saw post on in-ear monitors and reminded me of question. I have a pair of Genelec 8030b's for monitoring - very flat and neutral to my ears but they do offer compatible subwoofer. The 8030's go from 50hz to 25khz and the recommended subwoofers do 25hz to 80hz. Mostly do rock and singer/songwriter stuff - only see me worried about bass guitar and maybe bass notes on keys. Will never do electronic synth/dance bass type stuff.

I am home hobbyist so not convenient for me to physically place a subwoofer - realize all monitors are different but do pro's use subwoofers for monitoring in general?

(Sorry please no advice on sound treatment, mic's, using your ears etc - assume thats all there - just question of adding sub-woofer)
 
n1kk666

n1kk666

Established Member
I don't think i've ever seen a sub woofer in a commercial studio, whether it's for tracking, mixing or mastering.

If you're doing everything at home the sub might be useful to have for mastering.
 
Matt Hepworth

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
CLA does. I do. Lots of others do.

Mine doesn't run all the time (I have it switchable), and mine is also tuned only to extend the bottom where my monitors (3 way ADAM's) roll off.

In the large studios using the GIANT mains, they do not necessarily use, nor need, a subwoofer. However, a lot of those studios also have nearfields and a sub. ;)


Oh, @sjgam, make sure your room's properly treated, you're using good mics, and using your ears! :D
 
S

sjgam

Venerated Member
n1kk666 said:
I don't think i've ever seen a sub woofer in a commercial studio, whether it's for tracking, mixing or mastering.

If you're doing everything at home the sub might be useful to have for mastering.
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Thanks for tip - yeah messing with mastering (emphasis on messing) using UAD precision and other UAD plugins and listening with nice flat headphone and mid-range home stereo and my genelecs for perspective.
 
S

sjgam

Venerated Member
Matt Hepworth said:
CLA does. I do. Lots of others do.

Mine doesn't run all the time (I have it switchable), and mine is also tuned only to extend the bottom where my monitors (3 way ADAM's) roll off.

In the large studios using the GIANT mains, they do not necessarily use, nor need, a subwoofer. However, a lot of those studios also have nearfields and a sub. ;)


Oh, @sjgam, make sure your room's properly treated, you're using good mics, and using your ears! :D
Click to expand...
Makes sense - Giant mains already have the low frequency covered. Yeah I can switch on and off with genelec's too so suppose there is flexibility there. Wish I make it physically appear/disappear with switch too. Suppose better question would have been what frequency range do the pro studio's cover with their large mains and then see if I need to augment my nearfields with sub - sounds like the answer is "yes".

Although again given I am not doing sythn sub-bass dance type stuff - just doing google search, the electric rock bass apparently is 60 - 250 Hz, so maybe i'm ok? hmm...

Oh yeah thanks for refraining on the other advice :)
 
Matt Hepworth

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
Deep kick or bass (5 string) have a lot going on in the 40-60Hz range on modern rock.

Most newerish large mains are pretty full into 30Hz, and many don't hit their -10dB point until close to 20Hz.

I tune my sub/midfield crossover between 37 and 40 Hz so that the low end seamlessly extends that last near octave.

You don't want to notice the sub while it's on. You only want to notice when you've turned it off.
 
C

calimike

Venerated Member
I have Adam S2x's and an Adam Sub7 tuned to crossover just a bit above 80hz. The S2x's are expensive monitors but adding the sub gives them more clarity. One of the most important things that distinguishes ok monitors from good ones is how quickly they can decay the low-mids without unnaturally resonating. Subs help with that.
 
S

sjgam

Venerated Member
calimike said:
I have Adam S2x's and an Adam Sub7 tuned to crossover just a bit above 80hz. The S2x's are expensive monitors but adding the sub gives them more clarity. One of the most important things that distinguishes ok monitors from good ones is how quickly they can decay the low-mids without unnaturally resonating. Subs help with that.
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Cool - higher end monitors but the concept should carry through. Thanks
 
S

spicemix

Active Member
I use a foot switchable Genelec 7060B with both my Adam S3A's and NS10s.

Nearly every hiphop studio uses subs.

As mentioned CLA uses a sub with his NS10s.

All surround (5.1, 7.2 etc) rigs have subs.

Many systems essentially have integrated subs (e.g. Barefoots).

Having a sub is up to you and the monitors/room you have. There are people adamantly against it and others passionately for it. You can screw yourself having one (poorly tuned) just as fast as screw yourself not having one (being oblivious to the lows or over cranking them).

This is one of those questions like "Do pro's only pan LCR?" or "Do pro's never use the solo button?" It's going to vary from pro to pro, but if there's a legitimate product or technology out there, there's likely to be some pro who uses it to their advantage, and another pro who will tell you it's a horrid mistake.

My pro tip? Use sub-aware headphones (Sennheiser HD280 Pro is fine) to hear what's going on down there, and use the iPhone EarPods to hear what's going on at the high frequencies. Those checks on your mixes are inexpensive, oblivious to room tuning, and still useful no matter how wonderful your rig.
 
S

sjgam

Venerated Member
spicemix said:
I use a foot switchable Genelec 7060B with both my Adam S3A's and NS10s.

Nearly every hiphop studio uses subs.

As mentioned CLA uses a sub with his NS10s.

All surround (5.1, 7.2 etc) rigs have subs.

Many systems essentially have integrated subs (e.g. Barefoots).

Having a sub is up to you and the monitors/room you have. There are people adamantly against it and others passionately for it. You can screw yourself having one (poorly tuned) just as fast as screw yourself not having one (being oblivious to the lows or over cranking them).

This is one of those questions like "Do pro's only pan LCR?" or "Do pro's never use the solo button?" It's going to vary from pro to pro, but if there's a legitimate product or technology out there, there's likely to be some pro who uses it to their advantage, and another pro who will tell you it's a horrid mistake.

My pro tip? Use sub-aware headphones (Sennheiser HD280 Pro is fine) to hear what's going on down there, and use the iPhone EarPods to hear what's going on at the high frequencies. Those checks on your mixes are inexpensive, oblivious to room tuning, and still useful no matter how wonderful your rig.
Click to expand...
Yeah realized it was a subjective question (but I still asked it). I do have the Sennheiser HD 650's and they go down to 10hz so maybe thats my interim solution and I can make them disappear unlike the Genelec 7060B in home situation.
 
woodyreed

woodyreed

Established Member
I fiind a sub can be inspirational when tracking. Where I personally like things a little loud and big. But generally I don't feel a need for a sub. I have Genelec 1032A's, which have a 10" speaker. They go down there pretty damn far.

Based on your concern for size in your room, I assume you have a pretty small room? Even ore of a reason you might not need a sub. Personally, I would tune the space first.
 
Matt Hepworth

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
The problem with phones is they're REALLY forgiving about loads of sub lows. You really, really have to learn the bottom on them.
 
C

calimike

Venerated Member
Matt Hepworth said:
The problem with phones is they're REALLY forgiving about loads of sub lows. You really, really have to learn the bottom on them.
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Yeah slate is releasing new drum samples and in the demo most of the kicks have extreme processing to the low lows that ruins them (apparently this can be removed) but most of the slate customers couldn't even hear it because they were listening on headphones and such.
 
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spicemix

Active Member
I find it easier to learn a consistent presentation (as headphones are, provided you put them on in a consistent position) than an inconsistent one (as speakers-in-a-room are always going to be, as you're never in quite the same position relative to them).

Regardless, "learning what things should sound like" is the essence of what distinguishes and ranks a "pro" above others. I recommend trying anything and everything that helps you get there. A given "pro" might no longer need such aids, but there's no shame at all in learning by any means necessary. Nor in making the music more inspiring to you and the people you're working with.
 
J

jnTracks

Venerated Member
I have a sub. The trick is if your room can handle it in the first place, and placement of the sub and satellite speakers.

Ultimately, if you have a big enough room for big monitors, they will be easier to place and get a realistic response. But if your room isn't huge, like mine, adding a sub to your system and taking the time to really set it up right (think lots of math, listening for days, not hours) then you can have a good working 2.1 system.
 
R

ronmac

Active Member
Bob Katz, in his book "Mastering Audio", states a case for having two subwoofers in a mastering setup. Ymmv
 
S

scratch17

Venerated Member
Spicejam said:

You can screw yourself having one ... just as fast as screw yourself not having one
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Sounds like most of the girl friends I've had!
 
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