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Still a need for a mic pre-amp? I thought that was one point of Unison technology.

mwd

Active Member
I was reading a mic thread and didn't want to hijack.

I have two LA610MKII's in the studio but a lot of my guitar work and vocal experimentation is done at home. With the Apollo Unison slot simulating or virtualizing channel strips such as the 610 I had assumed (or hoped) that I would not need to drag the LA610's back and forth with me when plugging in mics at home. I use a Shure SM7B and SM81 and sometimes a Rode K2.

From what I'm reading the Apollo may not have the ballz to bring up the volume level to the same degree as the LA610MKII's without kicking the noise floor up.

Won't say it defeats 'all' of my purpose of getting the Apollo Quad but it certainly defeats a chunk of my justification. I thought that was the point of the 610B (and others) Unison Technology.
 

Kcatthedog

Hall of Fame Member
Don't think you will have a problem I know people who sold their 610 after the unison plug was released.
 
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eaygee

Established Member
I stop using outbored gear for Tracking except Microphones and direct boxes and my Fender DeVille. Apollo's Unison and software is all I need now.
 

tomtama

Hall of Fame Member
I know the thread you're referring to. I was surprised there was no mention of using unison pre-amps on Apollo given it's a UA forum.
 

billybk1

Shareholder
The onboard Apollo Mic pre's have up to 65dB of gain, which is pretty much bare minimum for SM7B. The UA LA610MKII has up to 77dB of gain. For many mics the the Apollo pre's are plenty fine, but other mics like SM7B (which need a lot of gain) need a bit extra to avoid added noise. That is why I got an inexpensive Cloudlifter to add all the clean gain I need for any mic I choose to use with the Apollo. BTW, I have a SM7B and it works terrific with my Apollo when using the Cloudlifter. IMO, any studio mic locker should have at least one (if not more) CL's available when needed. Of course my single channel LA610MKII cost nearly twice as much as my Apollo Twin USB, so I would expect it to have plenty of gain for any mic. But truthfully, since getting my Apollo & Unison (and Cloudlifter), I don't use it as much anymore. ;) Bottom line.......get a CL for up to 25dB of extra clean gain. I picked up the CL2 (dual XLR) during a nice sale. Paired with my Apollo, I have up to 90dB of available gain for use with any mic I choose and not have to worry about noise.

Cloudlifter CL-1 | Cloud Microphones

Cheers,

Billy Buck
 

mwd

Active Member
Thank you folks. I may be just fine without it but I don't mind adding a booster unit to the tool kit.

Any thoughts on the JRR NOS vs Cloudlifter vs Fethead. I don't want to start a sparring match :) but is impossible for me to do an ABC comparison and I'm sure some of you guys had to make the choice at some time. I've never seen a complaint on any unit and they all seem well built. Varied price points at 75 vs 100 vs 150 street prices.

Any other reasons to choose one over the other or notable differences?

And am I thinking right that I can still use the Unison slot with one of these boosters?
 

tomtama

Hall of Fame Member
The onboard Apollo Mic pre's have up to 65dB of gain, which is pretty much bare minimum for SM7B. The UA LA610MKII has up to 77dB of gain. For many mics the the Apollo pre's are plenty fine, but other mics like SM7B (which need a lot of gain) need a bit extra to avoid added noise. That is why I got an inexpensive Cloudlifter to add all the clean gain I need for any mic I choose to use with the Apollo. BTW, I have a SM7B and it works terrific with my Apollo when using the Cloudlifter. IMO, any studio mic locker should have at least one (if not more) CL's available when needed. Of course my single channel LA610MKII cost nearly twice as much as my Apollo Twin USB, so I would expect it to have plenty of gain for any mic. But truthfully, since getting my Apollo & Unison (and Cloudlifter), I don't use it as much anymore. ;) Bottom line.......get a CL for up to 25dB of extra clean gain. I picked up the CL2 (dual XLR) during a nice sale. Paired with my Apollo, I have up to 90dB of available gain for use with any mic I choose and not have to worry about noise.

Cloudlifter CL-1 | Cloud Microphones

Cheers,

Billy Buck
I use FetHeads to do the same thing.

http://www.zenproaudio.com/triton-audio-fethead
 

Don Schenk

Administrator
Forum Admin
Moderator
...And am I thinking right that I can still use the Unison slot with one of these boosters?
Yes, but the Unison will "see" the input impedance of whatever booster you use, because the booster is between the mic and the Apollo.

When I ran the comparison of an RE20 with and without the NOS Booster, it didn't occur to me to also run a test with Unison for sound quality. Of course "the sound" would be subjective, whereas audio level is objective. I'm not so certain as to the sensitivity of my hearing. :eek:

:- Don
 

jfjer

Active Member
for dynamic mics and ribbons FetHead and Cloud Lifter is a really good option, extra 25-27 db+ of noise free clean gain :)

i prefer FetHead as its cheaper, the sound difference is minimal between them but according to Ronan the FetHead takes a slight win on Dynamic mics and Cloud lifter takes a slight win on ribbons

heres a shootout between those two at Ronans recordingshow :

Triton Audio FetHead vs. Cloud Microphones Cloudlifter Cl-1 | Ronan's Recording Show


Cheers
 
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Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Won't say it defeats 'all' of my purpose of getting the Apollo Quad but it certainly defeats a chunk of my justification. I thought that was the point of the 610B (and others) Unison Technology.
The LA610 MK2 is a fantastic preamp, arguably one of the best around. I wish UA did a better job of emulating it, given that it's their own product, but I'm not shocked that they didn't. The 88 RS MK2 and VoxBox seem to be closer to the real deals.

Any thoughts on the JRR NOS vs Cloudlifter vs Fethead.
Our NOS Mic Booster is discrete, as opposed to the Cloudlifter which is a single IC. You're welcome to try one out and only pay for it if you want to keep it. Also, we have Cloudlifters in stock so you could buy both and then return which ever one you don't want to keep.
 

mwd

Active Member
You know I think I will order the NOS from you tomorrow. I have seen you help a bunch of people in the short time I have been here and folks just don't do business like you just offered to do business with me anymore. It's a lost and dying art and so dang refreshing to see. Thank you Eric.
 

mwd

Active Member
So I am wondering. Apparently you plug the mic into the NOS box and the box into the mic input on the Apollo. Then turn on phantom power to drive the NOS box?

Then you make sure you don't insert any plug in the Unison slot?

or

Can you put a plug in the Unison slot and other effects in the non-Unison slots and proceed as normal if the sound suites you?

or

If I liked the character a plug imparted, say 610B, would it be best to put it in the Unison slot or non-Unison slot?

Just trying to wrap my head around the do's and don'ts as I don't want to damage anything.
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
You know I think I will order the NOS from you tomorrow. I have seen you help a bunch of people in the short time I have been here and folks just don't do business like you just offered to do business with me anymore. It's a lost and dying art and so dang refreshing to see. Thank you Eric.
Thanks! :)

So I am wondering. Apparently you plug the mic into the NOS box and the box into the mic input on the Apollo. Then turn on phantom power to drive the NOS box?
Yes, that is correct.

Then you make sure you don't insert any plug in the Unison slot?
It will work with Unison plugins. However, the primary function of Unison, which is to change the input impedance of the preamp, will matter less because of the low impedance coming from the Mic Booster.

If I liked the character a plug imparted, say 610B, would it be best to put it in the Unison slot or non-Unison slot?
I don't think it will matter much but I could be wrong. Try both ways!

Just trying to wrap my head around the do's and don'ts as I don't want to damage anything.
Nothing will be damaged. The Mic Booster is in a way acting like the tube stage of a tube mic, I'm taking a lot of liberties with that comparison but I just mean that it will work with any preamp just as a tube mic will work with any preamp.
 

CarlosJones

New Member
Hi..as per your post you plug the mic into the NOS box and the box into the mic input on the Apollo. Then turn on phantom power to drive the NOS box?Then you make sure you don't insert any plug in the Unison slot?Also can you put a plug in the Unison slot and other effects in the non-Unison slots and proceed as normal if the sound suites you?

pcb board assembly
 
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Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Hi..as per your post you plug the mic into the NOS box and the box into the mic input on the Apollo. Then turn on phantom power to drive the NOS box?
Correct.

Then you make sure you don't insert any plug in the Unison slot?
You can use a plugin in your Unison slot but it will have less impact since the NOS Mic Booster has a low output impedance.

Also can you put a plug in the Unison slot and other effects in the non-Unison slots and proceed as normal if the sound suites you?
Yes.
 

mwd

Active Member
FWIW the box has landed. I haven't used it yet but it's purty and customer service was spectacular :) Will let you know when I fire it up.
 

J

Active Member
The LA610 MK2 is a fantastic preamp, arguably one of the best around. I wish UA did a better job of emulating it, given that it's their own product, but I'm not shocked that they didn't. The 88 RS MK2 and VoxBox seem to be closer to the real deals.



Our NOS Mic Booster is discrete, as opposed to the Cloudlifter which is a single IC. You're welcome to try one out and only pay for it if you want to keep it. Also, we have Cloudlifters in stock so you could buy both and then return which ever one you don't want to keep.
I'm currently using Cloudlifters for my ribbon and dynamic microphones. Could you describe the difference that may occur in sound, and or level, between the discrete and single IC architecture of these units and your NOS Mic Booster?
 

Prado Escondido

Shareholder
The onboard Apollo Mic pre's have up to 65dB of gain, which is pretty much bare minimum for SM7B. The UA LA610MKII has up to 77dB of gain. For many mics the the Apollo pre's are plenty fine, but other mics like SM7B (which need a lot of gain) need a bit extra to avoid added noise. That is why I got an inexpensive Cloudlifter to add all the clean gain I need for any mic I choose to use with the Apollo. BTW, I have a SM7B and it works terrific with my Apollo when using the Cloudlifter. IMO, any studio mic locker should have at least one (if not more) CL's available when needed. Of course my single channel LA610MKII cost nearly twice as much as my Apollo Twin USB, so I would expect it to have plenty of gain for any mic. But truthfully, since getting my Apollo & Unison (and Cloudlifter), I don't use it as much anymore. ;) Bottom line.......get a CL for up to 25dB of extra clean gain. I picked up the CL2 (dual XLR) during a nice sale. Paired with my Apollo, I have up to 90dB of available gain for use with any mic I choose and not have to worry about noise.

Cloudlifter CL-1 | Cloud Microphones

Cheers,

Billy Buck
... and don't forget the 4 channel CL-4 rack unit. That along with the CL-Z with variable impedance and your dynamic mic locker just exploded.
 

Sebrastian

Member
The onboard Apollo Mic pre's have up to 65dB of gain, which is pretty much bare minimum for SM7B. The UA LA610MKII has up to 77dB of gain. For many mics the the Apollo pre's are plenty fine, but other mics like SM7B (which need a lot of gain) need a bit extra to avoid added noise. That is why I got an inexpensive Cloudlifter to add all the clean gain I need for any mic I choose to use with the Apollo. BTW, I have a SM7B and it works terrific with my Apollo when using the Cloudlifter. IMO, any studio mic locker should have at least one (if not more) CL's available when needed. Of course my single channel LA610MKII cost nearly twice as much as my Apollo Twin USB, so I would expect it to have plenty of gain for any mic. But truthfully, since getting my Apollo & Unison (and Cloudlifter), I don't use it as much anymore. ;) Bottom line.......get a CL for up to 25dB of extra clean gain. I picked up the CL2 (dual XLR) during a nice sale. Paired with my Apollo, I have up to 90dB of available gain for use with any mic I choose and not have to worry about noise.

Cloudlifter CL-1 | Cloud Microphones

Cheers,

Billy Buck
Excellent tip for the Sm7B!
Cheers!


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