Interesting Silverface Advantage Over The New Blackface Apollos

Don Schenk

Don Schenk

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In looking at the photos of the back of the new Blackface Apollos I noticed the way the input/output jack s are set up. You can't plug in mics and line inputs and switch them from the front of the Apollo like you can with the Silverface.

And they can't be wired to a patchbay, because the mic and line inputs use Neutrik combo jacks.

Imagine having several Apollos in racks. This means going behind the racks anytime you want to change from mic to line. That would drive me nuts.

Also, the Blackface 8P has fewer line-outs on the back - 6 plus 2 monitor. The Apollo 8 and the Silverface have 8, plus the 2 monitor.

Comparison photos:

Apollo-GIF-Backs-Siver-8-vs-Black-8.gif

:- Don
 
Kcatthedog

Kcatthedog

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I know that is why I think the Apollo classic is more versatile for I/O and technically it is the only multi platform apollo as FW can be Windows or Mac and real tbolt with the card.
 
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tomtama

tomtama

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Kcatthedog said:
I know that sis why I think the Apollo classic is more versatile for I/O and technically it is the only multi platform apollo as FW can be Windows or Mac and real tbolt with the card.
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Me too!!! For my needs the Classic version has better input/output options. If I was planning to buy a new interface now I'm not sure the new Apollos would be on the top of my list for this reason.
 
Poesque

Poesque

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Interesting discussion. As evidenced by my frantic ramblings within other threads, I am have been struggling with the decision of returning my new Silverface Apollo units or swapping my these units with Blackface units (equal dealer swap), the latter which would necessitate either buying a Mac (major cash) or a new motherboard and Thunderbolt card for my PC (risking compatibility issues). However, since my emotions have chilled a bit I have been wondering if I should instead keep the Silverface units which have Firewire and Thunderbolt, not to mention $2k of plugin vouchers per the promotion (let's call it $1k because I only buy them when can I get them for about half of retail). I would love to have the Blackface for a number of reasons (some of them possibly just my neurotic nature, but I do have to live with myself after all), but with my Silverface I have the option to work with it now via PC Firewire and let the dust settle on UA PC support (or axe fall if this is the case) and still have the capability to either experiment with PC Thunderbolt or save up for a Mac. Am I crazy for debating this in the first place? I have another ten days or so to make my decision. What would you guys do?
 
Kcatthedog

Kcatthedog

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I think your indecision is very understandable :) I would keep your classic apollos and the plug vouchers which you completely legitimately have then and enjoy them. The classic are more versatile and let you get recording now, enjoy buying some great new plugs and as you say let the dust settle and decide later.

In an encouraging way if you can't make good recordings with 2 classic apollos and $1-2000 of UA's best plugs; the blackface are not going to help :) I mean that humorously and to put things in perspective.

why not sit down with a nice bottle of wine and start demoing all the plugs you could buy with 2 grand; that sounds like a lot more fun !!!
 
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Bear-Faced Cow

Bear-Faced Cow

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Kcatthedog said:
I know that sis why I think the Apollo classic is more versatile for I/O and technically it is the only multi platform apollo as FW can be Windows or Mac and real tbolt with the card.
Click to expand...
I have to agree as well. The way I have things routed right now in my mic and line inputs would not work at all on an Apollo 8. I don't have to go pulling out wires in the back and it all switches over nicely using some console presets.

jord
 
Eric Dahlberg

Eric Dahlberg

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Also, it's possible that the line inputs of the new Apollo are going through the mic pre circuitry. If so, that would have an impact on the sound.
 
Don Schenk

Don Schenk

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Bear-Faced Cow said:
I have to agree as well. The way I have things routed right now in my mic and line inputs would not work at all on an Apollo 8. I don't have to go pulling out wires in the back and it all switches over nicely using some console presets. jord
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Mine is set up that way too. The new ones would be a PITA for me to use.

@Poesque
Thank you for making a post of the comparison specs for each system. That made it real obvious to me that most of the difference in specs is in the 2db or 3db range - like signal to noise ratio, and THD. That is definitely not enough for my ears to hear a difference. The only reason I can even hear some high frequency is because I wear hearing aids that bring my ears' response curve back to normal up to 10K, and within 10 db of normal from above 10K to 14K and 15K - depending upon which ear.

So I don't think I will be running out to buy a Blackface Apollo. I would never hear the difference - and I'm not thrilled with its goofy I/O.

Without the hearing aids I mentioned, my hearing begins to drop rapidly above 2500 Hz. Yes, 2.5K! BTW this is from years of playing in front of a wall of speakers cranked up to vibrate-my-body levels. And I've done the same thing with cranking up studio monitors. The loud sound killed the nerves in my ears. Take care of your ears folks.

BTW I have been computing with CP/M, then DOS, then Windows since the mid 1980's and had completely avoided Macs, because I could not buy parts to build one or repair a Mac. Last June I bough a rMBP to use TB with the Apollo, it turned out to be an excellent choice. I still use Win7, I'm typing on a Win7 machine right now. But the Mac is for music only.

:- Don
 
Kcatthedog

Kcatthedog

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I think I read that the line inputs 1-4 bypass the BF pre and go direct to converters for cleanest sound ?
 
DanButsu

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Ya, there's some nice bypass routing on the input and output lines plus monitor outs


Some of the advantages of the Blackface Apollo's:
  • Unison on Hi-Z input
  • Better converters and circuitry (sorry I'm no electrical engineer, but UA really got under the hood)
  • Monitor and gain stage bypass on line inputs/outputs and mon outs for most direct circuit (see Gannon's explanation here: https://youtu.be/d1FCeuZ3o3o?t=5m16s)

Silverface Advantages:
  • Possibility of flipping back and forth between FW and TB drivers/Firmware
  • PC and Mac compatible
  • Separate 1/4 and XLR I/O for patchbay compatibility
 
S

sjgam

Venerated Member
DanButsu said:
Ya, there's some nice bypass routing on the input and output lines plus monitor outs


Some of the advantages of the Blackface Apollo's:
  • Unison on Hi-Z input
  • Better converters and circuitry (sorry I'm no electrical engineer, but UA really got under the hood)
  • Monitor and gain stage bypass on line inputs/outputs and mon outs for most direct circuit (see Gannon's explanation here: https://youtu.be/d1FCeuZ3o3o?t=5m16s)

Silverface Advantages:
  • Possibility of flipping back and forth between FW and TB drivers/Firmware
  • PC and Mac compatible
  • Separate 1/4 and XLR I/O for patchbay compatibility
Click to expand...
Nice list - if I needed more inputs - (I already have two with my twin and who needs more for a home ITB guy?) - I would go for the black for the benefits you listed (mostly the sound conversion) plus the silverface advantages are no use to me.

BTW - you missed the extra button features on the face - front panel control of two pairs of alternate monitor speakers, monitor DIM, and monitor MONO.

BTW 2 - not a bad comparison of why UAD THINKS its better than original in the FAQ section - Apollo 8p Thunderbolt 2 Audio Interface

Goes into more detail but the short version is - "The next-generation Apollo 8p is redesigned with improved sonics and additional hardware features. All-new features include 8 Unison™ mic preamps, channel output metering, more front panel indicators, front panel switches for metering and monitoring functions, and the ability to bypass preamp gain circuitry in the line inputs and monitor outputs."
 
Poesque

Poesque

Active Member
Kcatthedog said:
I think your indecision is very understandable :) I would keep your classic apollos and the plug vouchers which you completely legitimately have then and enjoy them. The classic are more versatile and let you get recording now, enjoy buying some great new plugs and as you say let the dust settle and decide later.

In an encouraging way if you can't make good recordings with 2 classic apollos and $1-2000 of UA's best plugs; the blackface are not going to help :) I mean that humorously and to put things in perspective.

why not sit down with a nice bottle of wine and start demoing all the plugs you could buy with 2 grand; that sounds like a lot more fun !!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice, but as for the last bit I am coming up on eleven weeks of sobriety. The stress of this situation has not made it easy, or maybe it is the sobriety that has made the situation more stressful. Where is that moment of clarity when you need it?
 
Kcatthedog

Kcatthedog

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congratulations ! I only meant take what ever pause that will refresh you and that lets you have fun experimenting with the different plugs.

In a small way I have had the same plug challenge as I have a 3/399 deal to mull over. I had a real drummer over last week tracking using the Glyn John's method, OB pres and comps on all 4 tracks replacing midi drums.

Then my buddy who frankly mixes better than I do ( so far, but I am learning) cleaned up my mix.

I have been demoing the vari mu, massenburg and vertigo-3, none of which my buddy has. He loves the pultec eq's but we also really liked the vari mu and used the vertigo 3 on a di'd bass ( really nice) and so far just have ampex and vertigo-3 on master buss.

I think I wil not get the massenberg, although I really like it ( i have lots of eq's) and instead will get the amx reverb as it is so unique.

I hope you are in the middle of a mixing project too and can just have fun experimenting with the different plugs and see what appeals to you !
 
D

Dguidry

Venerated Member
I see $3000 flying out of my bank account already, damn it.

Can we daisy chain my silverfaced apollo quad and the new blackface units via thunderbolt?
 
DanButsu

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DanButsu

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Indeed we are :D
 
Hoenerbr

Hoenerbr

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Poesque,
Just remember your Sobriety is more important than ANYTHING! Without it you could have all the Apollos in the world with all the plugs and you would still have nothing! I just passed 2 Years and I have finally stopped kidding myself. At eleven weeks I'm sure you still have a lot of confusion going on in your head. Sorry to turn this thread into this but keep up the good work and PM if you want to chat.
By the way Kcatt is correct, I think you should stay with the Silverfaced Apollos and Plugs and make Music. If you add a Blackface later it will be authorized with all those free plugs also!

Peace

Poesque said:
Thanks for the advice, but as for the last bit I am coming up on eleven weeks of sobriety. The stress of this situation has not made it easy, or maybe it is the sobriety that has made the situation more stressful. Where is that moment of clarity when you need it?
Click to expand...
 
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