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88RS on the masterbus?

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dennyhellbach

Member
hi all!

has anyone tried the Neve 88RS in the default setting (no EQ, no gate, no comp) on the masterbus? I've just tried it and the song sounds a little bit \"more together/warmer\" than without. could this be right or this just imagination? :)

thanx for your help!

denny
 
neil wilkes

neil wilkes

Venerated Member
This would not surprise me one bit! (Pun unintentional)
A Similar effect can be heard with the Pultec EQP-1A as well, which makes a mix - or even a stereo buss - sound more open. and with a better stereo field.
 
M

Macc

Established Member
A lot of people say the pultec smears out the stero field... I kind of agree, but the thing it does to the tone is toooo good to ignore for me :D

Regarding 88RS, it does work on the masterbuss, but I find it much better just using plenty of them in the mix instead and letting them contirbute to the sound in that way instead - you get more of it, but better controlled :)
 
N

necho

Member
Macc said:
A lot of people say the pultec smears out the stero field... I kind of agree, but the thing it does to the tone is toooo good to ignore for me :D
Click to expand...
yeah - I've noticed that smearing effect... my mixes have a LOT of space as I make quite ambient music... I find the Pultec screws things up stereo-wise... but the tone is so lush! :(

I've started mixing all my atmospheric elements through the 88RS and bussing drums and bass to the Pultec...
 
B

BTLG

Established Member
I'd really like to hear a mix done (not by me) through an 88rs plug on the master and one without it on the master to see if we can all tell the diff. Who's game?
 
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djsynchro

Hall of Fame Member
IMO the 88rs is very nice on the master bus for both EQ and compression.
(It has the option to have the EQ in the sidechain so it's possible to counter the effect of the compressor ducking the bass & kick too much!)
 
M

Macc

Established Member
BTLG said:
I'd really like to hear a mix done (not by me) through an 88rs plug on the master and one without it on the master to see if we can all tell the diff. Who's game?
Click to expand...
I was playing with this the other day as it happens. I may have been going mad, but it seemed so much more obvious turning on an 88 on in the master when the mixed file I was doing already contained quite a few. Older pre-88 mixes didn't show it up so much. It's odd, like a snowball effect or something :?

I'm probably just going mad though. :lol:
 
P

Plec

Venerated Member
The 88RS does make a difference.. it affects the lowmids and bass quite a bit. If it works for you... then all the best. I can't stand the Pultec on a mix. I find it narrows the image and destroys the dynamics completely.
 
D

dennyhellbach

Member
Plec said:
The 88RS does make a difference.. it affects the lowmids and bass quite a bit. If it works for you... then all the best.
Click to expand...
Yes, low-mids and bass - that was my feeling too. Somehow it glues the mix a little bit more together. I closed my eyes and hit the bypass-button a few times so that I didn't know if the plug was on or off and I really could hear the difference between "on" and "off" four out of five times.

any other UA-plug that adds colour in default setting? maybe the 33069?
 
F

Funkybot's Evil Twin

Active Member
necho said:
Macc said:
A lot of people say the pultec smears out the stero field... I kind of agree, but the thing it does to the tone is toooo good to ignore for me :D
Click to expand...
yeah - I've noticed that smearing effect... my mixes have a LOT of space as I make quite ambient music... I find the Pultec screws things up stereo-wise... but the tone is so lush! :(

I've started mixing all my atmospheric elements through the 88RS and bussing drums and bass to the Pultec...
Click to expand...
Out of curiousity, since you guys like the Pultec's tone so much. Have you tried splitting your mix up into two mono tracks (L/R) and putting a mono Pultec on each and then recombining the two to proper stereo for additional processing? I'm just wondering if that would give you the best of both worlds or still cause that smearing you're talking about.
 
M

Macc

Established Member
I've not tired it, but it's a thought... I'd be inclined to suggest it would still have the smearing, but I haven't had any coffee yet, and so can't explain why I think that :lol:
 
K

klaatu

Active Member
Plec i understand that by inserting pultec you can get smeared stereo field/color or whatnot but how can putec destroy dynamics that is beyond me :? Can you explain a bit? I did some test before and only i saw is plenty of that. Smearing and character...Some like it some not. Anyway back to question. Dynamics....(we are still talking about just inserting plug in a buss)
 
P

Plec

Venerated Member
Yeah, well... it's probably not \"dynamics\" as in actual dynamics :? it's just how I percieve the difference. I just hear a mix as having alot less punch and definition/separation. The times I've put the pultec on and went to listen in the car for example, no matter how loud I play it... it doesn't seem to have any punch anymore, like it never gets loud. But as soon as the pultec is removed, everything is fine.

That is what I mean with the pultec destroying the dynamics.
 
Dan Duskin

Dan Duskin

Established Member
The deal with the Pultec is two part...

#1: The UAD Pultec plugin increases the volume, so it's no wonder it \"sounds better\"

#2: The UAD Pultec plugin upsamples to 192kHz and then downsamples to your current sample-rate (unless you are already at 192kHz). Because of this, it will alter the sound. By upsampling it is increasing the resolution while slightly altering the content, then when its downsampled the content is altered again. It could be said that doing this can \"smooth\" the high frequencies, or it can be said to \"smear\" them. It's interesting, and surely can be used if you like that sound. I somewhat like it, but I'm fine without it. It's the same reason that upsamplers exist in the audiophile community. I'm not sure if this was intended or accidental on UA's part. However, I would say that if you use this technique it is best to mix into the Pultec instead of adding it later (which is the most likely reason for the majority of the people who dislike the sound and call it \"smearing\"... i.e., because they are adding it later). Some people might also like the sound of the very light roll off at about (and above) 15kHz due to downsampling to 44.1/48kHz (when setup that way).
 
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Paul Woodlock

Established Member
Dan Duskin said:
The deal with the Pultec is two part...

#1: The UAD Pultec plugin increases the volume, so it's no wonder it "sounds better"
Click to expand...
I find this volume increase annoying for audition purposes. It's a piece of authentication I could have done without, :)
 
P

Plec

Venerated Member
I must say I don't quite agree with the \"add it from the start\" way of doing things that is described here. My theory is this, that whatever you put on your bus, may it be an eq or compressor or whatever. If you don't like how a certain process affects your sound... I don't believe it will make you change your mind if it's applied from the start or added later. I believe that a process added from the start will only affect the way you work and would also affect the outcome in a positive way IF you like what it's doing to begin with.

For instance... I would probably never use a Vari-MU strapped across my bus when mixing dance. Why? Because it usually doesn't sound as good as using a cleaner sounding compressor. That will not change depending on if I mix through the Vari-MU or add it later. The dynamic response might be a bit different, but the sound of the box itself will be the same. Again, I'm not a big fan of the Precision EQ... and it will affect the sound in the same manner if applied from the start or at the end of a mix.

If you have a thing you really dig... then having it on from the start or in the end will affect the way you work. Probably having it on from the start will make the mix come together more quickly, but using a box that you don't think sounds good for a particular job will never sound good to you. Regardless of where in time you choose to apply it.
 
Eric Dahlberg

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Dan Duskin said:
The UAD Pultec plugin upsamples to 192kHz and then downsamples to your current sample-rate (unless you are already at 192kHz).
Click to expand...
The Neve's do this, too, no? They appear to not have the filter issue of the Pultec so how come they haven't caught on for this purpose?
 
Dan Duskin

Dan Duskin

Established Member
Eric Dahlberg said:
[quote="Dan Duskin":1hjp27ui]The UAD Pultec plugin upsamples to 192kHz and then downsamples to your current sample-rate (unless you are already at 192kHz).
Click to expand...
The Neve's do this, too, no? They appear to not have the filter issue of the Pultec so how come they haven't caught on for this purpose?[/quote:1hjp27ui]

It's my understanding that the up/down sampling algorithm in the 1073, 1081 & PreEQ are new and better designed than the one in the Pultec... which is why the resampling is so transparent.
 
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