BLIND TEST-Sum in/out the box: can you tell which is which?

[lonestar]

Dear fellow UAD-1 users,

let me join the already crowded \"blind-test-me-too\" club with a new challenge for you all.

I've mixed a 30 sec. excerpt from an old project of mine (acoustic jazz - flugelhorn, piano, acoustic bass & drums) in four different manners:

1-first I mixed it \"in the box\", using Nuendo v3;

2-then I made a real-time recording of the song while it played, patching with a balanced TRS cable two analog outputs and two inputs of my audio interface, a RME Fireface 800;

3-then same as above, I recorded the mix playing in real-time, but this time I inserted a self-built analog summer between the stereo outputs & inputs.
This device (actually not used here as a summer, but just as a 2-in, 2-out coloring device) is an analog summer with 8 inputs and 2 outputs and its circuitry includes two transformers and a subtle low order harmonic generator, in an attempt to mimic the behaviour of certain much revered vintage gear...

4-then again, same as n.3, but this time assigning the 8 single tracks to 8 separate outputs and hence to the summer's 8 inputs. Here the summing happens in the analog domain.

So, a quick recap: 1-mix in the box, 2-straight through analog I/P O/P, 3-through two channels of a coloring summer (instead of a greying winter... sorry, I couldn't resist!.. :\\ ), and finally 4-through real 8ch analog summing.

For this test to be as true as possible, I left the files in their original format (24 bits, 44.1 KHz) and tried my best to match the RMS levels down to the 10th of dB. The resulting .wav files are quite large (about 7.5 MB each), nevertheless I'd be so grateful to anyone taking the trouble to try their ears with this test.
The files on the server will expire in a week, so hurry!

One side note: the files' numbers obviously don't match the above order; I'll reveal the solution in a few days.


http://download.yousendit.com/D87D4ECC2277F9E6
http://download.yousendit.com/54981AFC313C2DA2
http://download.yousendit.com/D5C3D14F29DCCD08
http://download.yousendit.com/3CAE265C49A698AE


Thanks,

lonestar

 

[Plec]

Thx for the test lonestar! I'm all into summing at the moment so I totally appreciate your test. I have no idea which is which... but i know which versions I like more than others, so I will take a guess!

This is my ranking list:

1. SumTest 02
2. SumTest 01
3. SumTest 04
4. SumTest 03

1. SumTest 02 is my favourite, it has a nice \"flow\" to it that's a little bit more musical than the others. It's a little bit darker and does not have so much of the brittleness in the high-end, which I like for this sort of thing. It has some of the features I was missing when hearing SumTest 01.

I want this to be the 8ch analogue sum! :lol:

2. SumTest 01 comes in second place for me. I think I hear quite a big difference - especially in the high-end between this test and the other three. It also sounds a bit more \"stable\" (others would call it boring maybe) in the dynamic behaviour.

I want this to be the Nuendo summed version!

3. SumTest 04 has some of the features of SumTest 02 but sounds \"funny\" to me in a way. It just doesn't feel as musical and comfortable to listen too. If this is what I think it is then what I am reacting to is just coloration of the converters which I would label quite cheap. If this one is right then it also means that the quality of converters used are of such low quality that it's virtually impossible to hear any effects of the analogue summing since the converters are masking that with it's own very distinctive colour.

I want this to be the digital summed 2ch I/O!
I hope this is the 2ch analogue \"coloured\" sum!

4. SumTest 03 doesn't do anything for me... I don't like it at all. Since I feel that the others sound way more natural I get the feeling that this is somewhat more distorted and coloured than the others.

I want this to be the 2ch analogue \"coloured\" sum!
I hope this is the digital summed 2ch I/O!

Thx again for your efforts!

 

[Dan Duskin]

First of all... I wanted to tell you that the musicians are excellent! Your recording is excellent! Your mix is excellent! What a joy to listen to
Great job!

The differences are very small... I had to listen a few times.
#1 is my favorite!
#4 is \"probably\" my least favorite
...what I know for sure is that #1 is the best!

Here's what I noticed as differences:
#1: full, warm, bassy, and soft in the highs
#2: clear & bright but sounds a little phasey too me
#3: clear and clean (esspecially in the mids)
#4: full, warm, and bright

Basically... 1 & 2 have less \"air\"... which I think is due to the roll off that a D/A converter does naturally. 3 & 4 are brighter, which makes me think one of these is in-the-box and the other is the 2 channel harmonic generator (bringing some of the highs back).

I'll bet two stones & a loaf of bread this is it (\"comon big money!\"):
#1: Straight D/A-A/D conversion
#2: 8 channel analog summing
#3: In The Box
#4: 2 channel harmonic generator

Cheers!

 

[lonestar]

Well, guys...

thanks for partecipating to the test, and what a collection of interesting remarks you've made so far!
But the time of revelation hasn't come yet, so hold your breath for a few more days.

And of course, if anybody else in the meantime feels like joining the panel, please do!

To Dan: thank you for your praises, you're flattering me! But actually I didn't record this tune, I was busy playing the bass myself... you see, as a main job I'm a musician.

The recording took place in a small but great sounding concert hall, property of the Italian-speaking National Swiss Radio (RTSI), with plenty of expensive gear at our disposal (Steinway D grand piano, Neumann tube mics, Apogee converters, you get the idea...).


lonestar

 

[Merlinmrk1]

Great production!!!!! Blows my stuff away!

This is my prefered order.

1. D/A A/D
3. 8 channel analogue summing
4. In the box
2. 2 Ch harmonic gen

 

[Dan Duskin]

Looks like nobody else is going to listen. Can we get the results?

 

[lonestar]

Hi guys!

I'm not posting from home, at the moment: I had problems with my ADSL connection, so please bear with me for a little while.
I'll post the solution ASAP.

lonestar

 

[Dan Duskin]

lonestar,

No worries mate!

We'll be here

 

[RichR]

Can't download the files, they've expired!

 

[lonestar]

Ok guys, here I am (at last!) with the answers :


N.1 is the straight analog bounce, Fireface O/P right into Fireface I/P

N.2 is the 2 channel harmonic generator

N.3 is the mixed-in-the-box version

N.4 is the 8 channel summer/harmonic generator


So, to sum it up (erm... ) :

- Plec, I believe you're right when you say \"n.03 doesn't do anything for me\": it's the all-digital sum, and I don't like it much, either, especially the highs. And I'm glad you like n.2 best: though you didn't get it right, it's my favourite, too.
As far as Fireface's converters, luckily they are very good IMHO, and I don't think they impart any bad coloration to the sound. Hence I'm glad you liked n.1 and guessed wrong about n.4. Nevertheless I hoped that the 8ch analog sum would have fared better, maybe I should go back to the drawing board, sooner or later.

- Dan, I'm floored! You pick almost everything right! You just swapped 2ch and 8ch harmonic generator... What a great pair of ears... and what a shame we live so far apart: I wouldn't hesitate to trust your services as a mastering engineer.

- Merlinmrk1, thank you too for the kind words about the music: in the end this is what it's really all about.
You got n.1 right (straight D/A A/D), and the fact that also you don't seem to like the 8ch sum that much, makes me willing to start over again and re-design the device.

- And finally RichR: sorry about the expired files, : it would take too long for me to re-up them again. Eventually I'll post another test.


And thank you all once again for partecipating!


Ciao,

lonestar