Compressor choice

[djremidi]

Hi everyone!

I'm trying to decide which compressor I should use for my kick drums - the 1176 or the EX-1. I've been comparing them for about two hours and I noticed that the 1176 doesn't seem to compress the very first hit of the kick drum. It lets the first hit through and then it compresses the rest (or so it seems) and there is about 0.6-1.6 dB difference (depending on the settings) in volume between the first hit and the hits following it. For some reason the EX-1 doesn't exhibit this behavior.
Is it because these two compressors have different algorithms or am I doing something wrong?
Also, which of these two compressors would you recommend for thick, punchy, meaty kick drums?

Thanks!

 

[boody]

they are two different compressors so they should behave differently. Fwiw I like to use the 1176LN with attack all left and release all right (in this case it would maximum attack and minimum release, same setting on the EX-1 would be the opposite; attack all way right, release all way left)

cheers
Budy

 

[Doublehelix]

they are two different compressors so they should behave differently. Fwiw I like to use the 1176LN with attack all left and release all right (in this case it would maximum attack and minimum release, same setting on the EX-1 would be the opposite; attack all way right, release all way left)

cheers
Budy

Obviously, everybody has their own style and their own sound, but I find that if I make the attack too fast on the snare, it does not let the "crack" of the snare come through.

A pretty common setting for snare comps is to have the attack setting slower so that you can hear that crack come thorugh before the comp kicks in.

Just my style, YMMV...

 

[boody]

? Sure, but I was talking about a kick and slow attack... which is what you get when you turn the attack way left on a 1176ln or way right on a ex-1.

But on snare we agree 8)

Cheers
Budy

 

[djremidi]

Thanks for the replies!

Would you be able to tell me why when I use the 1176 on a kick drum track the first hit is so much louder than the consecutive hits? This is the real question I guess. I love the sound of the 1176, but I just can't have the first hit of the kick be ~1dB louder that the rest of them; it sounds very unprofessional to me. Does this have anything to do with delay compensation? I noticed that the Logic compressor and the VST PSP compressor don't suffer from the same problem. But then again, if this issue was due to delay compensation, wouldn't the EX-1 exhibit the same behavior as the 1176 (meaning not compressing the first hit)?

Please let me know if you have any thoughts regarding this.

Thank you and Merry Christmas!

 

[sj_digriz]

Thanks for the replies!

Would you be able to tell me why when I use the 1176 on a kick drum track the first hit is so much louder than the consecutive hits? This is the real question I guess. I love the sound of the 1176, but I just can't have the first hit of the kick be ~1dB louder that the rest of them; it sounds very unprofessional to me. Does this have anything to do with delay compensation? I noticed that the Logic compressor and the VST PSP compressor don't suffer from the same problem. But then again, if this issue was due to delay compensation, wouldn't the EX-1 exhibit the same behavior as the 1176 (meaning not compressing the first hit)?

Please let me know if you have any thoughts regarding this.

Thank you and Merry Christmas!

This sounds to me like you have the release set to max. This would cause the compression to persist until the next kick. Once triggered it never has time to release. Try setting the release time to minimum and work to a longer release.

 

[djremidi]

sj_digriz,

I tried setting the release to a higher value but that didn't help. Here's what's happening exactly:

I made a simple one bar kick drum loop in Logic using EXS24. My sequencer is stopped at the beginning of the loop. When I hit \"play\", the meters show -1.6dB on the first hit and then decrease to a steady -3.7dB and stay there until I stop the sequencer. Once I hit \"play\" again, the process repeats, with the meters showing -1.6dB on the first hit and -3.7dB with all the consecutive hits until the next time I hit \"stop\" followed by \"play\".
Does that make sense?

Thanks again!

 

[TheEastGateMS]

the 1176 is not a brickwall limiter and each hit will vary. it would not be surprising if that specific hit just simply pushes the comp harder due to how it was played.

secondly, the faster settings on the 1176 are clockwise and the slower settings are counter clockwise. make sure you are not just looking at the numbers.

 

[brian]

I have experienced this but only infrequently, and with slower compressors (LA-2A). If this happens you might need to trigger it with some signal just before the track starts, so that it is already working when the music begins.

 

[Dan Duskin]

the 1176 is a VERY coloring tool... it will add lots of warmth and soft distortion while smoothing out transients and attacks

if you want a clean, punchy, clicky kick drum... go for the EX-1 !!!

 

[Tarekith]

EX-1 is my default kick (and snare) compressor FWIW.

 

[widdly1]

Just a guess but Audio Instrument channels dont have plugin delay compensation in earlier versions of Logic?

 

[djremidi]

Thanks guys!

I run Logic 5.5.1 so it does have delay compensation on audio and instrument tracks; and I am aware that the attack and release knobs are reversed on the 1176. I guess it's just the way 1176 behaves because I don't have this issue with the EX-1. It's also not host dependent since I get the same results with Cubase SX3.

I'll just stick to EX-1 for my kicks then, but I really wish the 1176 wouldn't behave in such a manner - it does sound rather nice on kicks.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[cane creek]

ive been using the 1176 alot lately , i love the distortion it adds.

 

[sj_digriz]

sj_digriz,

I tried setting the release to a higher value but that didn't help. Here's what's happening exactly:

I made a simple one bar kick drum loop in Logic using EXS24. My sequencer is stopped at the beginning of the loop. When I hit "play", the meters show -1.6dB on the first hit and then decrease to a steady -3.7dB and stay there until I stop the sequencer. Once I hit "play" again, the process repeats, with the meters showing -1.6dB on the first hit and -3.7dB with all the consecutive hits until the next time I hit "stop" followed by "play".
Does that make sense?

Thanks again!

yes it makes perfect sense. As EastGate pointed out, make sure you are turning the release in the correct direction. It is the opposite of what you think (hint - read the pdf).

The only time I have had this issue is if

A) The attack is not fast enough
B) The release is not fast enough
C) A combination of both if you have massive compression
D) The first kick in the loop IS louder and problems A thru C are exaggerting the issue

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

I made a simple one bar kick drum loop in Logic using EXS24.

If you're mostly using samples, why not just edit the sample directly? That'll guarantee it sounds uniform (if that's what you're after).

 

[Dan Duskin]

ive been using the 1176 alot lately , i love the distortion it adds.

yeah.... it's very vintage and warm

it really depends on what you need

if i'm mixing a modern rock/punk/metal group i avoid the 1176 completely, because it will round-off the attack and punch too much... but if it's softer music, or reminisent of an older sound, then the 1176 gets used a lot.

actually... myself, i never ever use the 1176se, it sounds like digital distortion to me. and the 1176LN is mostly only ever used on electric guitar groups and for lo-fi vocal effects.

 

[boody]

no, I think djremedi is right: you've found an issue here with Logic. I remember having this with logic 5.5.1 on pc. I moved to 7.1.1 on Mac and haven't noticed it, but I'll check it tomorrow. I had a workaround on 5.5.1, but I've forgotten what it was :? Maybe I'll remember tomorrow. I know at first I compensated for it with the automation, so maybe that'll work for you for now...

Cheers
Budy

 

[boody]

I checked it and it is the way the 1176LN works with default input settings, at least here with Logic. If you lower the input and compensate that with the output setting, the overall output will stay the same on all kicks.

Here are some settings I could have used on a kick, with cambridge and the 1176LN ( I always use this combo). You can also try it with the EX-1 and simular settings and check the difference. Just set it up so the output will be the same with and without the plug. Level differences can be deceiving. The presets are VST, the Cambridge comes BEFORE the 1176LN

Cambridge
1176LN

Cheers
Budy

 

[djremidi]

Thanks for the presets boody!

I tried those settings and while they eliminate the issue I'm experiencing, with the attack set so high (all the way counterclockwise) I'm not getting the sound I'm looking for. Also, isn't 20:1 too high of a ratio for kicks? I've been using 8:1 all this time and the manual says anything above 8:1 is considered limiting rather than compression.

I like the way my kicks sound with the following settings using EX-1:

Attack: 0.05ms
Release: 95ms
Ratio: 5.96
Threshold: -19.7

When I try to replicate that sound using the 1176, I run into a problem this entire thread is about.

Thanks for trying to help me out guys!