Console in Apollo Twin X not allowing incoming ADAT channel usage beyond 2 channels

[AnalogAudio]

Hi. I am new to UAD, having been am RME interface user, and I am having problems understanding what is (not) happening and wondered if you can help.

My Apollo Twin X only has 2 x hardware interfaces ofcourse, so I wanted to bring in 8 channels of ADAT into the unit via optical. I connected the cable and clicked the correct settings on the outgoing external unit sending ADAT to the Twin. I can see all 8 ADAT channel strips in that mixer and set recording to my DAW via ADAT 1 & 2 in Console. All good so far - worked perfect;y. However, when I tried to record via Conole ADAT channels 3 & 4 no signal is reaching Console's ADAT 3 & 4 channel strip meters.

In Console I/O Matrix, I see no 'Outputs' associated with ADAT channels 3 to 8. They are blank. I am worried I have bought the wrong audio interface as I understood that despite it being a 2-channel hardware input device, that I could nonetheless import 8x ADAT channels and use all 8 of those for recording to my DAW via Console. Is the latter assumption correct or am I stuck with the Twin only being able to record 2 channels at a time, despite ADAT being digital inputs?

Your help would be appreciated please.

 

[JamesNorth]

Isn’t there an option to alternate between SPDIF and ADAT mode for the optical port in Console’s settings?

Make sure it’s on ADAT mode?

 

[AnalogAudio]

Isn’t there an option to alternate between SPDIF and ADAT mode for the optical port in Console’s settings?

Make sure it’s on ADAT mode?

Thank you James. Yes, I had already selected ADAT, and the TWIN is receiving sample clock via ADAT too (verified on the footer of the Console mixer).

 

[AnalogAudio]

Here are the various Console screengrabs I made, if that helps.....

 

[AnalogAudio]

Here are the various Console screengrabs I made, if that helps.....
View attachment 16618
View attachment 16619
View attachment 16620

I am not sure what to do to get ADAT 3 & 4 pn Console here to receive the signal from the ADAT stream of all 8 ADAT channels entering the Twin X. Any ideas would be most welcome. Am I missing doing something really obvious?

 

[Clbraddock]

What sample rate are you at?

For 88.2 or 96 you need to use 2 adat cables.

 

[AnalogAudio]

What sample rate are you at?

For 88.2 or 96 you need to use 2 adat cables.

I am using the 44.1 sample rate.
How do you use more than one ADAT cable anyway when the Apollo Twin X device only has one ADAT IN socket?
Are there other settings I am missing on Console that would enable ADAT channels 3-8 on the Twin X?

 

[rodd]

Hi. I am new to UAD, having been am RME interface user, and I am having problems understanding what is (not) happening and wondered if you can help.

My Apollo Twin X only has 2 x hardware interfaces ofcourse, so I wanted to bring in 8 channels of ADAT into the unit via optical. I connected the cable and clicked the correct settings on the outgoing external unit sending ADAT to the Twin. I can see all 8 ADAT channel strips in that mixer and set recording to my DAW via ADAT 1 & 2 in Console. All good so far - worked perfect;y. However, when I tried to record via Conole ADAT channels 3 & 4 no signal is reaching Console's ADAT 3 & 4 channel strip meters.

In Console I/O Matrix, I see no 'Outputs' associated with ADAT channels 3 to 8. They are blank. I am worried I have bought the wrong audio interface as I understood that despite it being a 2-channel hardware input device, that I could nonetheless import 8x ADAT channels and use all 8 of those for recording to my DAW via Console. Is the latter assumption correct or am I stuck with the Twin only being able to record 2 channels at a time, despite ADAT being digital inputs?

Your help would be appreciated please.

You will not see adat outputs on the twin X because it can only take adat input. The x4 can do adat in and out, but the twin is only input.
Are you sure your RME device is routing 8 channels to its adat output? I don’t see anything wrong with your console settings.

 

[Clbraddock]

I am using the 44.1 sample rate.
How do you use more than one ADAT cable anyway when the Apollo Twin X device only has one ADAT IN socket?
Are there other settings I am missing on Console that would enable ADAT channels 3-8 on the Twin X?

Ah my bad, I didn't realize the Twin only had one adat input. The rack apollos have 2. So if you are connecting an adat interface that can do SMUX you would connect two adat outputs from that device to two adat inputs on the receiving device. Anyways, this is irrelevant to what you are trying to do, so you can disregard it.

I agree with rodd that I would double check the settings on the RME.

 

[AnalogAudio]

You will not see adat outputs on the twin X because it can only take adat input. The x4 can do adat in and out, but the twin is only input.
Are you sure your RME device is routing 8 channels to its adat output? I don’t see anything wrong with your console settings.

Hi Rodd. Thank you for your reply. I understand that the Apollo Twin X does not have ADAT outs so now I see why they dont show up in the Console I/O matrix (this UA Apollo world is totally new to me). I will double check my RME device output settings, as I really need this to work.

Basically what I am attempting to do here is to be able to use this Apollo Twin X to accept as input more than two channels, so I can record several external audio instruments simultaneously via my RME 8 in/8 out Audio Interface (via ADAT outs) into the Apollo Twin X and then into my DAW (Logic Pro). I need to do this because if I don't, I am stuck with just two Inputs at a time into the Twin X and my investment in this unit would be a very bad one (I understood at the time of buying this Twin that you could use more than one Apollo Twin X in combination to expand your total inputs, but now I am told this is not true after all).

 

[AnalogAudio]

Ah my bad, I didn't realize the Twin only had one adat input. The rack apollos have 2. So if you are connecting an adat interface that can do SMUX you would connect two adat outputs from that device to two adat inputs on the receiving device. Anyways, this is irrelevant to what you are trying to do, so you can disregard it.

I agree with rodd that I would double check the settings on the RME.

No problem - and thanks for your reply. I have no idea what 'SMUX' means btw!

 

[Joe Porto]

Basically what I am attempting to do here is to be able to use this Apollo Twin X to accept as input more than two channels, so I can record several external audio instruments simultaneously via my RME 8 in/8 out Audio Interface (via ADAT outs) into the Apollo Twin X and then into my DAW (Logic Pro).

Have you put the RME interface in "standalone mode"? I believe this is done within one of the RME apps.

 

[rodd]

Hi Rodd. Thank you for your reply. I understand that the Apollo Twin X does not have ADAT outs so now I see why they dont show up in the Console I/O matrix (this UA Apollo world is totally new to me). I will double check my RME device output settings, as I really need this to work.

Basically what I am attempting to do here is to be able to use this Apollo Twin X to accept as input more than two channels, so I can record several external audio instruments simultaneously via my RME 8 in/8 out Audio Interface (via ADAT outs) into the Apollo Twin X and then into my DAW (Logic Pro). I need to do this because if I don't, I am stuck with just two Inputs at a time into the Twin X and my investment in this unit would be a very bad one (I understood at the time of buying this Twin that you could use more than one Apollo Twin X in combination to expand your total inputs, but now I am told this is not true after all).

You definitely can use the 8 adat inputs on the twin. There’s something wrong somewhere. Also true that you can use up to 4 Apollos on the system, but unfortunately only one of them can be a desktop model.

 

[AnalogAudio]

Have you put the RME interface in "standalone mode"? I believe this is done within one of the RME apps.

Hi Joe - absolutely yes - I configured it to standalone mode before the ADAT connections were made and actioned.

 

[AnalogAudio]

You definitely can use the 8 adat inputs on the twin. There’s something wrong somewhere. Also true that you can use up to 4 Apollos on the system, but unfortunately only one of them can be a desktop model.

Hi Rodd. Thanks for your reply.
Re: "You definitely can use the 8 adat inputs on the twin." - This is music to my ears (pardon the pun) - I just need to find out how it works.
Re: "Also true that you can use up to 4 Apollos on the system, but unfortunately only one of them can be a desktop model." - sadly this was not apparent to me at the time of purchase, not helped by the fact that the wording on the retailers website where it mentioned 'scalability' was not clearly expressing these conditional limitations. I am considering going back to the retailer to challenge this.

I am a complete newbie with ADAT (and Apollo/Console) - if I successfully can get all eight ADAT channels to stream into the Twin X, what can I not do when recording etc that I could do if recording using the two hardware inputs on the Twin?

 

[rodd]

Hi Rodd. Thanks for your reply.
Re: "You definitely can use the 8 adat inputs on the twin." - This is music to my ears (pardon the pun) - I just need to find out how it works.
Re: "Also true that you can use up to 4 Apollos on the system, but unfortunately only one of them can be a desktop model." - sadly this was not apparent to me at the time of purchase, not helped by the fact that the wording on the retailers website where it mentioned 'scalability' was not clearly expressing these conditional limitations. I am considering going back to the retailer to challenge this.

I am a complete newbie with ADAT (and Apollo/Console) - if I successfully can get all eight ADAT channels to stream into the Twin X, what can I not do when recording etc that I could do if recording using the two hardware inputs on the Twin?

yeah I saw your post in the other thread how it mentioned scalability, I agree that could be more clearly worded. The main difference you may see is the latency difference in using an external ADAT expander versus another Apollo. The Apollos will keep all the inputs in sync, so you can record with the Twin mics and the 2nd Apollo at the same time and not worry about latency differences. ADAT will add a few samples of latency, which may not be a big deal, it just depends on what you are doing. For example, if you are recording a drum set with more than 8 mics, there will be a difference in when the signal from the ADAT interface is in the timeline verses the Twin ( a few samples, you'll want to measure that). This can cause phasing issues if you're not careful. Also, monitoring may be a concern when recording from the ADAT interface. Some people are hyper-sensitive to latency like this, others (like me) are not. In the end, there is cost savings in using an ADAT expander versus another Apollo, but there are differences.

It seems like you have the cabling and clock setup right, and that is one thing that trips people up. I think you just need to spend some more time digging through the RME mixer and make sure you are routing correctly. It is definitely possible, and after you find the problem and the resulting forehead smack, you'll be all set. There are several people on here who have used RME interfaces so hopefully they will offer some help. @Matt Hepworth I think you have done this, sounds like @Joe Porto has too.

 

[Clbraddock]

yeah I saw your post in the other thread how it mentioned scalability, I agree that could be more clearly worded. The main difference you may see is the latency difference in using an external ADAT expander versus another Apollo. The Apollos will keep all the inputs in sync, so you can record with the Twin mics and the 2nd Apollo at the same time and not worry about latency differences. ADAT will add a few samples of latency, which may not be a big deal, it just depends on what you are doing. For example, if you are recording a drum set with more than 8 mics, there will be a difference in when the signal from the ADAT interface is in the timeline verses the Twin ( a few samples, you'll want to measure that). This can cause phasing issues if you're not careful. Also, monitoring may be a concern when recording from the ADAT interface. Some people are hyper-sensitive to latency like this, others (like me) are not. In the end, there is cost savings in using an ADAT expander versus another Apollo, but there are differences.

It seems like you have the cabling and clock setup right, and that is one thing that trips people up. I think you just need to spend some more time digging through the RME mixer and make sure you are routing correctly. It is definitely possible, and after you find the problem and the resulting forehead smack, you'll be all set. There are several people on here who have used RME interfaces so hopefully they will offer some help. @Matt Hepworth I think you have done this, sounds like @Joe Porto has too.

I wouldn’t stress about the latency difference in the poster’s case. Like Rodd said we are probably talking a few samples. At 44.1khz a delay of 44 samples would be 1ms. So, we are talking sub 1ms difference. In an average room, sound moves at approximately 1 foot per millisecond. So a 44 sample delay (more than you should be dealing with) is like sitting 1 foot further from you speakers - ie basically imperceptible (I’m not saying that no one could hear the difference. Just that for tracking, the majority of people wouldn’t notice/be affected by a sub millisecond delay)

There are situations where it could matter if you were sending signals out of the interface and back in, but it doesn't sound like that is what you will be doing, and, if it was, there are ways to manually set compensation in daws like pro tools. For recording synths, I would absolutely not worry about it though. You probably get as much or more latency from usb or midi din cables as you would from Adat.

 

[fsharp.au]

The trick here is using Mac OSX's Audio Midi Setup which allows you to configure the computer's internal routing.
I've combined an RME Fireface and an Apollo Twin by creating an Aggregate Device in Audio MIDI Setup. Click '+' (bottom L of panel below) btw OS Sonoma gives a clearer view of channels.


In Logic under the Mix dropdown menu, 'I/O Labels' allows you to name your various menus.
Easy enough - after you work it out!

Hope you can get it working.
btw I've had the FF800 (Firewire) for about 20 years and RME are still supporting it with software. I hope UAD can do as well in the future.

Dave R

 

[fsharp.au]

The trick here is using Mac OSX's Audio Midi Setup which allows you to configure the computer's internal routing.
I've combined an RME Fireface and an Apollo Twin by creating an Aggregate Device in Audio MIDI Setup. Click '+' (bottom L of panel below) btw OS Sonoma gives a clearer view of channels.
View attachment 16673

In Logic under the Mix dropdown menu, 'I/O Labels' allows you to name your various menus.
Easy enough - after you work it out!

Hope you can get it working.
btw I've had the FF800 (Firewire) for about 20 years and RME are still supporting it with software. I hope UAD can do as well in the future.

Dave R

Also switching this to the right will give your missing Virtual channels. d ; )

 

[AnalogAudio]

yeah I saw your post in the other thread how it mentioned scalability, I agree that could be more clearly worded. The main difference you may see is the latency difference in using an external ADAT expander versus another Apollo. The Apollos will keep all the inputs in sync, so you can record with the Twin mics and the 2nd Apollo at the same time and not worry about latency differences. ADAT will add a few samples of latency, which may not be a big deal, it just depends on what you are doing. For example, if you are recording a drum set with more than 8 mics, there will be a difference in when the signal from the ADAT interface is in the timeline verses the Twin ( a few samples, you'll want to measure that). This can cause phasing issues if you're not careful. Also, monitoring may be a concern when recording from the ADAT interface. Some people are hyper-sensitive to latency like this, others (like me) are not. In the end, there is cost savings in using an ADAT expander versus another Apollo, but there are differences.

It seems like you have the cabling and clock setup right, and that is one thing that trips people up. I think you just need to spend some more time digging through the RME mixer and make sure you are routing correctly. It is definitely possible, and after you find the problem and the resulting forehead smack, you'll be all set. There are several people on here who have used RME interfaces so hopefully they will offer some help. @Matt Hepworth I think you have done this, sounds like @Joe Porto has too.

Hi Rodd, Many thanks for your very helpful information here. Given what you have said about latency costs then there might be a case for me to only use ADAT inputs into the Twin X and to avoid the two hardware inputs, that way (if I understand correctly) any 'one-take' multitracking recording will all be delayed by the same amount of samples across all tracks.

I aim to record hardware sequencing (good old fashioned metal and wires analogue sequencers) into Logic Pro although I will also record software instruments via Logic so maybe sample delays may occur (but as I am not a machine then natural delays may occur in my playing).
I am wondering now if the RME 'TotalMix' software routing mixeron my FireFace400 remembered the set up I thought I had saved to it when tethered to my old MacBook Pro, ready for its standalone operation. I will check soon.

Thanks for giving me names of RME users. I wondered if I might be metaphorically pelted witrh rocks on this UA forum if mentioning RME but I am relieved it is not the case. If I could have got my RME to work with my 2023 Mac Mini M2 thunderbolt PC then I would have fewer questions and be down a slightly different path I guess, but in any case this ADAT functionality on the Twin is giving me hope.