CPU issues - Cubase + Three UAD-1 cards

[Doublehelix]

I am having some serious CPU issues with my UAD-1 cards ever since installing a new soundcard (Lynx AES-16), and I am wondering if it has anything to do with PCI bandwidth overloads, or driver conflicts.

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to the UA tech support folks which describes things pretty well:

-----------------

I have 3 UAD-1 cards (software 3.90) in a Magma chassis on a system running Windows XP. Here is my system configuration:

Asus P4P800-E Deluxe mobo (Intel 865 chipset)
Intel Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz Prescott 800 FSB
1 GHz Kingston DDR PC3200 400 Mhz CL 3.0 (2 X 512MB)
Matrox G450 AGP Video Card
200 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM/8 MB (OS/App Drive)
200 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM/8 MB (Data Drive #1)
80 GB Maxtor 7200 RPM/8 MB (Mastering/Mixing Data Drive #2)
160 GB Maxtor External USB2 (Backup Drive)
3.5\" 1.44 MB Mitsumi Floppy Drive
Plextor PX-712SA SATA DVD+R/CDR Drive
Lynx AES-16 card w/ firmware rev 20
3 X UAD-1 Cards (v. 3.90)
PowerCore Element Card
2 X 17\" Flat Screen LCD Monitors
Antec Sonata case w/ 380 watt True Power PS
2 X 120 mm Antec Smartcool fans
Windows XP Home SP1a
Cubase SX 3.02.623
Wavelab 5.01

Here is some IRQ information:

UAD-1 #1 = IRQ 21 (unshared)

UAD-1 #2 = IRQ 22 (shared with UAD-1 #3 only)

UAD-1 #3 = IRQ 22 (shared with UAD-1 #2 only)

AES-16 card = IRQ 20 (unshared)

Powercore card = Unshared, but I forget the IRQ number, sorry.

I am running into a few pretty severe problems lately where Cubase SX will become unusable due to the CPU becoming maxed out, and the computer becomes pretty much useless. The mouse does not respond very quickly, playback is impossible, etc.

This seems to happen only when the UAD-1 meter reaches the mid-70 percent range (I am working at 88.2 KHz).

Now, if I remove just one instance of (for example) an 1176, I can bring the UAD-1 meter down to the low-to-mid 60% range, everything returns to normal (although it takes me about 30 minutes just to remove a single instance of the 1176 due to the slow, unresponsive computer).

If I can keep the UAD-1 CPU meter below about the mid-60's, everything is fine. If I get above the mark, everything seems ok until I close the project and re-open it. Once re-opened, the project is pretty much dead until I disable enough UAD-1 plugs to get the meter below that magic 60-65% mark.

This took a lot of trial and error to figure out, and at first, I assumed that the Cubase Project files (.CPR) were corrupt, but I tried taking out all of my UAD-1 cards, and voila! After a warning message or two, the projects opened up just fine, and would play back just fine. A bit more detective work brought me to the conclusions that I present here.

----------------

Is anyone else experiencing these issues?

Thanks!

 

[secretworld]

Hi
this may be of no use to you, but you never know. Sometimes when I load a ¨project with 90% uad use, the next time I load the project the plugs get distrubuted differently on my 2 uads and 1 is over 100%. Disabling some plugs and then reenabling them (in cubase not the uad pannel) usualy helps. Next time this happens to you, see if one of the uads is overloaded.
Good luck
Vincent

 

[Doublehelix]

Hi
this may be of no use to you, but you never know. Sometimes when I load a ¨project with 90% uad use, the next time I load the project the plugs get distrubuted differently on my 2 uads and 1 is over 100%. Disabling some plugs and then reenabling them (in cubase not the uad pannel) usualy helps. Next time this happens to you, see if one of the uads is overloaded.
Good luck
Vincent

Hmmm...thanks for that...interesting.

How are you checking how each UAD is loaded? Must be in the UAD control panel, eh? I need to poke around a bit I guess.

 

[.mr chris]

Greetings

have you tried:
- fresh cpr, 44.1kHz, 1024 sample buffer, 24bit(32)
- 4 stereo audio tracks
- one stereo wav on track 1
- 7x 1176LN on track 2,3 + 4

check how much you can get, should be 20-21 instances, maybe the 19/ 20 causes so called \"cpu munching\" means, if you switch it on, ASIO meter jumps up to 100%, then switch it OFF and again ON.

Have you checked the MIN_GNT setting?
How are your PCI latencies? From the new soundcard?

HTH,
.chris

 

[Doublehelix]

Here's an update...

Still having problems despite lots of investigative work.

I got rid of the Magma for now, and have all 3 UAD-1 cards in the PC along with my AES-16 card and the PoCo card (all 5 PCI slots filled).

This \"CPU munching\" issue occurs with 1 card, 2 cards or 3 cards (obviously, the total number of plugins differs), so I am not convinced that it is a PCI-bandwidth issue.

I have spent a fair amount of time tweaking the PCI Latency timer settings following UA's recomendations:

AES-16 soundcard = 248
UAD-1's = 64
Poco = 64
Video card = 32

A lot of the other settings are at \"000\", is this a problem?

The MIN-GNT setting is at 64 as well.

I saw a post on another forum where someone else was having this same problem, and on here, someone mentions CPU issues with PTLE.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Agent Cooper]

Don't know if this is of any use to you, but I've got a relatively similar setup to yours that works very reliable, even with high CPU and UAD loads.
P4 3.06, no HT (doesn't work at all here)
ABIT BD7II-RAID (I 845)
2 Gig MDT RAM (2 sticks CL 2.5 DDR400)
Geforce 4200 TI DualHead MSI
4 internal HDs, each on its own IDE channel
Enermax 465W PSU
XP Pro SP1a
SX 3.1, loads of legal software & freeware
RME Digiface
3 UAD 1, no matter if 3.9 or 4.0 drivers
1 PoCo Element (some initialization problems, but who hasn't got those ?)
working at 44.1/24 here
I've never heard anything bad about the 865/875 chipset, in fact some of my friends use similar setups (but with fewer DSP cards) with great stability, too.
Imho you can rule out board, CPU, DSP cards and drivers, HDs and RAM.
Your PSU doesn't seem to be on the strong side for all that stuff you got running, and you might want to check out another VGA (should be pretty easy to do, just ghost your system partition so you always can return to the previous state. There are some stories about Matrox incompatibilities around ...
Why not update to SX 3.1 ? A lot better than 3.02 here.
Another thing you can try is add the line \"devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices\" with the value \"1\" to your system variables, this enables device manager to display traces of old hardware installations that might still be present and cause conflicts.
Maybe this can help you to isolate the problem, maybe not,
anyway the best of luck,
Cooper

 

[giovanniroma]

I am having some serious CPU issues with my UAD-1 cards ever since installing a new soundcard (Lynx AES-16),

Thanks!

exactely what kind of problems do u have ???

did u tried with a different pci sound card?

 

[Doublehelix]

Don't know if this is of any use to you, but I've got a relatively similar setup to yours that works very reliable, even with high CPU and UAD loads.
P4 3.06, no HT (doesn't work at all here)
ABIT BD7II-RAID (I 845)
2 Gig MDT RAM (2 sticks CL 2.5 DDR400)
Geforce 4200 TI DualHead MSI
4 internal HDs, each on its own IDE channel
Enermax 465W PSU
XP Pro SP1a
SX 3.1, loads of legal software & freeware
RME Digiface
3 UAD 1, no matter if 3.9 or 4.0 drivers
1 PoCo Element (some initialization problems, but who hasn't got those ?)
working at 44.1/24 here
I've never heard anything bad about the 865/875 chipset, in fact some of my friends use similar setups (but with fewer DSP cards) with great stability, too.

I am thinking that the conflicts are between the UAD-1 cards and the Lynx drivers, but I could be wrong.

I used to have an RME 9652 card, and there were no conflicts there either.

Imho you can rule out board, CPU, DSP cards and drivers, HDs and RAM.
Your PSU doesn't seem to be on the strong side for all that stuff you got running, and you might want to check out another VGA (should be pretty easy to do, just ghost your system partition so you always can return to the previous state. There are some stories about Matrox incompatibilities around ...

I tend to agree here, but the Matrox incompatibilities that I have heard of are with the newer, "bigger" Matrox cards like the "650". I have never had any problems with my "450", although as you mention, anything is possible, and being stubborn and saying that it has "never happened before" doesn't get us anywhere! I have had that same graphics card for several years with multiple UAD-1 cards without issues.

Why not update to SX 3.1 ? A lot better than 3.02 here.

3.02 is quite stable, and I have been burned before by a bad SX upgrade (1.05), so I am much less willing to upgrade nowadays..."if it ain't broken...".

Plus, I am using HT, and with my current situation, it is lifesaver as it allows me to back out of the situation (somewhat) gracefully. Without HT enabled, I am pretty much screwed, and the projects is all but lost without a chance for recovery. As I'm sure you have heard, there are HT issues with SX 3.1.

Another thing you can try is add the line "devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices" with the value "1" to your system variables, this enables device manager to display traces of old hardware installations that might still be present and cause conflicts.
Maybe this can help you to isolate the problem, maybe not,

Is this in the Windows Registry? Any more details here?

Thanks for all of your advice!

 

[Doublehelix]

exactely what kind of problems do u have ???

Uhhh...it is pretty well detailed at the end of the original post.

did u tried with a different pci sound card?

Not an easy thing to do unfortunately, even for testing purposes. I am wired to the gills with 16 channels of AES/EBU ins and outs from an A/D that is only AES/EBU...I sold all my ADAT-compatible gear a while ago.

 

[1stgecco]

Hi out there,
I´m running same mainboard and I have issues more or less often...
despite I´m running only 2 cards in a Magma chassis !!!!!!

But i have 2 RMEs - multiface and 9652 HDSP - in my setup (not magmaed) I never was able to run the machine absolutely flawless, which means: ultrashort loops ~2/10, low latency <5ms , dropouts , freezes and so on.
My best setup was: Multiface only and nothing else
My worst was : MF+ 5296HDSP + 2xUAD-1 - no Magma.
The last config. ran almost perfect since April 04 to May 05, then something , a plug in or another USB donlge or memorystick or maybe UAD driver version, gave the last little push to make my system go over the edge an I never fixed it again to the old perfection.
Long talk may be no information -that is why I´m posting:

Could Agent Cooper give a little more information about where to find that command showing up orfant processes.

I think this could be helpfull in my case too.

Thank you in advance

gecco

 

[Agent Cooper]

Doublehelix,
check your studio mail for some screenshots.
1stgecco, give me a mail address and I'll send you the screens, too.
I believe it's not possible to post files here ?
A bit hard to explain in words, since I use a german XP and have to guess the correct english terms. The screenshots show it clearly.
Cheers, Cooper

 

[Doublehelix]

Agent Cooper...thanks, I'll check that out.

 

[mtech]

Hi Doublehelix

Have you considered that your 380w power supply make be insufficient to drive all the gear you are using. I had a client who installed 1 UAD without problems and the second pushed the power supply over the edge with similar symptoms. He went for a 450w which helped until he added the last UAD. Now he has a 550w and it's 100%

I think these UAD suckers are quite power hungry. I have a 550w and quite a bit of gear just in case.

mtech

 

[Doublehelix]

Thanks for the suggestion, and it is certainly worth a try...however....

I was running the 3 UAD-1 cards in a Magma chassis that has it's own power supply, although as part of the troubleshooting I have been doing, I moved everything back to the PC a couple of days ago.

 

[Doublehelix]

Hi Doublehelix

Have you considered that your 380w power supply make be insufficient to drive all the gear you are using. I had a client who installed 1 UAD without problems and the second pushed the power supply over the edge with similar symptoms. He went for a 450w which helped until he added the last UAD. Now he has a 550w and it's 100%

I think these UAD suckers are quite power hungry. I have a 550w and quite a bit of gear just in case.

mtech

Just for the heck of it, I bought a new powersupply this weekend (Antec 500w), and it made no difference. Thanks for the suggestion however, it was worth a try.

 

[mtech]

Just for the heck of it, I bought a new powersupply this weekend (Antec 500w), and it made no difference. Thanks for the suggestion however, it was worth a try

Pity it didn't work, I suppose all that DC headroom won't do any harm when those UAD-1's are maxed out

 

[Doublehelix]

Just for the heck of it, I bought a new powersupply this weekend (Antec 500w), and it made no difference. Thanks for the suggestion however, it was worth a try

Pity it didn't work, I suppose all that DC headroom won't do any harm when those UAD-1's are maxed out

When??? How about IF??? :wink: Right now I can't get above 70%!!! Grrrr... :evil:

 

[mtech]

Hi DH

Don't you think it might pay to go to 3.1 Build 933 (Aug 23 2005) you could always enable system restore and go back if it doesn't work or causes more problems? I am using Hyperthreading at the moment without seeing any problems now, although I don't do as much work as I should with Cubase.

mtech

 

[Doublehelix]

Hi DH

Don't you think it might pay to go to 3.1 Build 933 (Aug 23 2005) you could always enable system restore and go back if it doesn't work or causes more problems? I am using Hyperthreading at the moment without seeing any problems now, although I don't do as much work as I should with Cubase.

mtech

Thanks for the comments mtech...yeah, I upgraded to 3.1.1.044 this past weekend, and it made no difference, PLUS, it make my 3 Mackie Controls wig out, and I had to roll back to 3.02.

I am using Ht with 3.02, and it does work quite well, so I am sticking here for a while until Steinberg gets the Mackie Control issues worked out.

I am pretty much down to a reformat and reinstall of the OS, which really sucks, but I am out of options here...I even uninstalled the Lynx AES-16 card, and all the drivers, put in my old RME 9652 with the most recent drivers, and I get the same problem, so it is definitly NOT the Lynx card but something deeper (bad VST plugin or something) that only a fresh install will be able to detect.

I am going to install WinXP, then the Lynx card, then Cubase, and then the UAD stuff, and see if the problem still exists. If not, I will then start adding back my other plugins one-at-a-time until I can pinpoint the problem.

Sound like fun??? sheesh...I'd rather have a few root canals...