delay comp

[bigshuga]

Hello Everybody,

I just purchased the UAD a few days ago and I have been doing some tinkering. I love the Pultec, and all the Dynamics Plugs. By only issue is how the delay comp works. I'm frustrated with all the routing and i'm not getting the right signal processing.

I haven't used it with the TDM/HD system yet, but on protools m-powered the delay comp seems to drain the cpu. i have had to ration the way, I set up the delaycomp. Mind you, this is a dual G5 2.7 Ghz with 2 Gigs of RAM. I am wondering if this is an issue with protools mpowered and the new Tiger OSX or the something else need to be done.

We can also add the fact that i am a newbie at these new plug ins. Anything said will help greatly.

 

[bigshuga]

Also somebody please confirm that the signal processing on protools goes from top to bottom. This will make me feel a little bit better.

 

[BluesBoySteve]

Delay Compensation in PTle has been a giant pain for me as well. I wish I had more practical advice. Digidesign is really the only major DAW that doesn't have automatic delay compensation. It makes it tough to work with the UAD-1 card, Power Core, and now the Waves accelerator. I am very interested to see the (more knowledgable) responses to this thread. I'm hoping for a magic fix and an easy way to go.

For now I usually do one of two things.

a) If I am building a new session that I know I am going to be using a lot of UA plugs on, I will build a template of the tracks I need, and put the Delay Comp plug on every track. When I add a UA plug I replace the delay comp with it. If I add another plug the Dely Comp stays, and I add it below. (It does go from top to bottom). The problem with this is it does tend to push the processor more.
b) The second approach I have is usually (and unfortunately) to physically shift the audio to compensate. It sucks if things change, as they always do, but it takes less CPU load and actually saves me time as opposed to navigating a field of delay comp plugs.

I hope someone has a better way for us.

 

[UAJames]

Hi guys,
I highly suggest using buses to create submixes and use UAD-1 plugins on these submix buses. Not only does it make delay comp a lot easier, but you also don't have to have lots of plugins on each track (which can also cut on CPU load (which could be coming from the VST-RTAS adapter, or if you have an AMD-8131 based machine, from the AMD-8131 mode workaround).

As far as general DelayComp use goes, once you understand the basic principle of what you have to do, it makes everything easier. The purpose of the DelayComp plugin is to delay tracks so that they are delayed equally to those tracks that are being delayed with actual UAD-1 plugins. Where it can get complicated is with AUX tracks/FX sends, however, this same principle still applies.

Say you have 8 tracks and 2 AUX returns and each one has a Realverb-Pro. Now if you don't do any delay compensation and send to the reverbs you can probably hear some delay before the reverb singal (it will sound basically like pre-delay). So what you need to do is to delay all the tracks that are going to be sent to those tracks as well as any that you might eventually send to those tracks by 1 plugin (for each 1 Realverb on each Aux track). Now you could put a DelayComp plugin set to 1 on every track, but that's a waste of time and resources. Instead, submix all the audio tracks through a bus and put a DelayComp on this bus set to \"1 plugin\". Now you have just delayed all those 8 tracks by 1.

Make sense?

 

[Archmart]

Something not quite right...

Hey Hey!

Under PT LE on an Mbox and Dual 1.8 G5 (with the AMD)...

I've got a session with a bunch of tracks going to my main and only outs - 1&2. Due to my trouble with more than 3 Plugs at a time, I decided to bounce my vocal with a bit of 1176LN and a bit of LA-2A on it and then import it back into my session. At about this time I was reading up on the latency issues and decided to go ahead and try the Delay Comp.

Having imported this 1176LN'd and LA-2A'd track back into a new track (muting the original track) I now need to send everything else to a Bus with a Delay Comp on it set to 2, right? And the Aux Input I have my reverb on also needs one before the Verb Plug (set to 2)? Now does this mean I can't send the vocal (thru a bus) to the same Verb because it's already delayed?

Am I following the logic here? In this case it would actually be easier to just slide the track into alignment with the old one, but I'm curious, is that a fixed value (in samples) I can remember to use or does it depend on more than just the number of UAD-1 plugs? (Buffers, etc...)

Thanks,
Archmart

 

[UAJames]

Re: Something not quite right...

Having imported this 1176LN'd and LA-2A'd track back into a new track (muting the original track) I now need to send everything else to a Bus with a Delay Comp on it set to 2, right? And the Aux Input I have my reverb on also needs one before the Verb Plug (set to 2)? Now does this mean I can't send the vocal (thru a bus) to the same Verb because it's already delayed?

Well, you don't want to send this bounced vocal through the same bus as the other tracks (because then your delay for the vocal track would then be 4). You can use the sends on that vocal to go to the reverb bus though, that will be perfectly in time. The vocal track would in that case would not go through a bus, it's output would be your master output.

Am I following the logic here? In this case it would actually be easier to just slide the track into alignment with the old one, but I'm curious, is that a fixed value (in samples) I can remember to use or does it depend on more than just the number of UAD-1 plugs? (Buffers, etc...)

I think you pretty much got it. For some people it's easier to shift tracks manually, for others it's easier to use the DelayComp plugin. You can do whatever works easiest for you; they both achieve the same result. The delay is a function of the "Block Buffer Size" in the FXpansion adapter. The latency of each plugin should be 2x that number in samples. So long as you don't change this during the session, it should always be the same latency...except in pultec and pultec-pro...each of these has 13 extra samples. Usually you don't have to worry about it unless you have 2 identical tracks and have the pultec/pultec-pro on only one of the tracks, where the 13 samples could have a noticeable effect on the phase (this is also noted in the manual).

 

[Archmart]

My system doesn't seem to be working as you say it should...

Hey Hey!

My FXpansion buffer setting is 1024, so if I bounce a piece of audio on a track with one 1176LN inserted, when I use Spot Mode to bring the bounced audio back in at exactly the same sample, the audio file will start at the same sample but the actual audio will be blank for 2048 samples, right?

Perhaps I didn't phrase that ideally, but in any case, my audio is blank, delayed for 3071 samples. In another test in a different session but with the same settings, it came up 3064 samples delayed.

I did also check bouncing a piece of audio with just a delay comp in the insert and that came out the same 3064 samples as with the 1176 in the channel, so at least the delay comp is doing the right thing...

But am I missing something? Shouldn't it be the same all the time unless I change that FXpansion setting?

Archmart

 

[Archmart]

Still having trouble figuring out the delay compensation...

Hey Hey!

Actually working on a project now.

In PTLE... on a G5 with the AMD Chip, with an Mbox... and still haven't shot myself or anyone else... only just barely though...

First I bounced several tracks with plugs inserted (1176 on Bass, 1176 on vocal, and DM-1 on keys) in order to save my max of 3 plugs for other things.

I brought the bounced tracks back into the session and sent them straight to L/R.

I sent everything else to a bus coming back on an aux input with a delay comp set to 1.

Then I added an LA2A to the vocal track.

I upped my delay comp on the bus to 2 and added delay comps set to 1 on the bass and keys tracks.

Now I want to send everything thru some verb, actually I'm wanting to try out the Plate, so I create another aux input with a Plate in it and feed it from bus 5/6.

So I'm sending a bit of each track, some with UA plugs on them, some with audio that was bounced with plugs, and some with both, thru bus 5/6 to the aux input with the plate on it...

Do I use a Delay Comp before or after the Plate? Or not at all? Or do I actually need a seperate Plate on several aux ins in order to compensate for different amounts of delay? (It seems to me that some of those feeds to bus 5/6 have nothing on them causing delay, some have audio that was already delayed at bounce, some have both that AND a delay comp, and some have UA plugs causing delay?

It's a confusing nightmare! Help!?

Please set me straight on this...

Thanks,
Archmart

 

[UAJames]

Whoa. Haha, that is confusing. Well, as you probably realize, tracks that you bounce in PT LE will have the delay from the plugin. For those tracks, pretend the plugin is still there (I like to note at the bottom of the channel strip how many plugins were on the track when I bounced it). From the first half of your description, it sounds like everything is lining up. So I'll assume everything is in sync *before* you make an aux for the Plate. In that case, you can:

1) Just add the Aux and plate as normal and not do any further delay comp. There will be delay, but it will sound much like a pre-delay to the reverb.

or

2) Route all the audio tracks through a bus if they are not already. I like to call this the DC (Delay Comp) bus. Logic users prior to 7.1 should recognize this procedure. Put a delay comp on this bus set for 1; this is to match up the delay incurred from sending to the Plate140 (or other UAD reverb plugin) which goes on a subsequent Aux. Now it doesn't matter which tracks have sends to the reverb, everything will stay in sync.

 

[fredstarr]

Hi James; Thaks for the advice. I have been researching this as I switched to PT LE 6+ after using Cubase, and had to deal with this.

I'm still confused as how to handle effects on aux sends. I've had success using UAD eq/dynamics effects on inserts and using DelayComp for non-UAD tracks with no delay. However, I still experience some delay when sidechaining from an audio track to an Aux containing RealVerb.

Let's say I have my nonUAD tracks grouped/bussed to a single Aux input. Then I have one track (a snare drum) not grouped with the others, which has a send to that Aux Input with the reverb. Since I have audio going to the master out (channel output), and a sidechain going to the reverb, where is my delaycomp (if any) going? It seems the two signals (the output and return from the effect) are always out of synch, whether or not I put a delaycomp in the audio track's path or not.

What do I do? It seems like everything I've read so far caters to pushing a signal entirely through the effect as opposed to a true sidechain where I cna hear my dry and effected signal coming back at the same time.