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Digital performer 4.6 out...can now use AU presets...

Well...Digital Performer 4.6 is out and is a free update for all DP 4.5.x users. One of the notes listed which would be of value to UAD-1 users is that DP will now accept and load AU presets. You can also simply drop them onto an insert on a mixer track and they load the plugin with its preset. I am anxious to see how this works with the new UAD-1 3.9 software.

Also performer now offers multiple outputs for Au instruments that support multiple outputs.

Lots of other cool additions including basically building the equivalent of Melodyne right into Performer. Well...that saves me $600.00. :D
 

giles117

Active Member
Thanks ralston., I checked the site earlier today and no updates they must've posted this one after 3pm.

Looking forward to the new features..

DP is once again still \"my king\" of DAW's :)
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
Yes this is a big plus for anyone who has had to go through the hassle of importing the VST presets. The great thing is it also saves presets as .aupreset files, so you can trade them with your Logic buddies too :)
 

Dave Bourke

Active Member
Gotta say I admire your optimism, Dragon_Huang and Brian. DP4.6's pitch manipulation, while useful and welcome, is not even in the same ballpark as Melodyne's. It might *look* similar, interface-wise, but I'm afraid that's about as far as it goes :)

I know this because I own both. Sorry to disappoint.

Kind regards.
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
We still want to have that function for compatibility between VST and AU apps (or for those who want to share presets). Also, we use these internally for making the .aupresets. I'll pass it on to the developers though; and if anyone has similar feelings please let me know. Thanks.
 

audiopad

New Member
Same here.
I don't want load/save VST preset menu exist in AU version.
If that menu is must needed for MAC user, why not 'load AU preset menu' in VST version?
It looks not good, and basically don't need anymore in major audio app.

follow directory works great for AU preset in Logic, Live, Soundtrack Pro. (and now DP?)
~/Library/Audio/Presets/Universal Audio/
/Library/Audio/Presets/Universal Audio/ (*this folder not work in LIVE)

these folder is official location for AU preset in OSX.
so if some app is not support AU preset by these folder and not also own specific folder,
and not even can handle fxp/fxb file, that is there fault.
They have to fix it, and not UA.

===
oops. I'm lost some point.
maybe someone need that menu for translation self-maked preset in vst, if there host app not support fxp/fxb file.
personally i don't need much, but if you(UA) think this menu is very needed,
I wish can hide, or separate utility.
or paste it all other plugin format and PC. :twisted:

sorry, that just joke. :>
anyway, if separate utility freely offered(even non-UAD user) by UA,
I think a lot of mac user give thanks to UA.
 

Dave Bourke

Active Member
I'm very happy with the VST load/save menus the way they are. Remember, the AU format doesn't support banks, only individual presets. How dumb is that?

Kind regards.
 
Dave Bourke said:
Gotta say I admire your optimism, Dragon_Huang and Brian. DP4.6's pitch manipulation, while useful and welcome, is not even in the same ballpark as Melodyne's. It might *look* similar, interface-wise, but I'm afraid that's about as far as it goes :)
hey dave! me too, i'm so happy that dp included this very very very useful, simple tool. of course it doesn't replace melodyne in its wide ranged possibilities. but if you're just up to simply tune some vocals or any other instruments, dps tuning is the most simple and time saving instrument i can imagine. and it doesn't eat up any dsp nor cost you a cent! (except the time you lose downloading the update :) )
cheers motu !
 

Ninja

Active Member
Maybe there should be some type of VST to AU converter and visa versa.

Like Audiopad I don't think this should be the responsibility of Universal Audio.

What if every single plugin on the marked had this ?

I just think it clutters up the design of the otherwise beautiful plugs.

Making this atleast optional (like I've recomended before) shouldn't be all that difficult.

Keep up the good work!
 

Dave Bourke

Active Member
I don't know about the rest of you but I use these plugs to LISTEN to, not to LOOK at. Don't like the clutter? Close the plug-in window. Minimise it. Or hide it behind a host window.

The bottom line on this is: the preset/bank management system as it stands works perfectly well for all AU users. Changing it will add nothing worth having. Since each host handles AU presets differently, it's likely that UA will still have to build its own .aupreset management system into each plug. Which means no screen real estate is gained. You'll just have the \"Load VST Preset\" menu label changed to \"Load AU Preset.\"

Don't get me wrong - I always try to use AU plugs in preference to VST and I have in fact trashed VST Wrapper from my system (although that's another story). But the fact remains that the AU format, while technically superior to VST *on paper*, is still half-baked in its implementation *so far*.

Kind regards.
 

Ninja

Active Member
Dave Bourke said:
I don't know about the rest of you but I use these plugs to LISTEN to, not to LOOK at. Don't like the clutter? Close the plug-in window. Minimise it. Or hide it behind a host window.
Are you sure you're on the right forum? This is the MAC forum, isn't it? :D

Dave Bourke said:
The bottom line on this is: the preset/bank management system as it stands works perfectly well for all AU users. Changing it will add nothing worth having. Since each host handles AU presets differently, it's likely that UA will still have to build its own .aupreset management system into each plug. Which means no screen real estate is gained. You'll just have the "Load VST Preset" menu label changed to "Load AU Preset."
All sequencers that support AU correctly should have no problem with loading presets without it being implemented directly into the gui.

Dave Bourke said:
Don't get me wrong - I always try to use AU plugs in preference to VST and I have in fact trashed VST Wrapper from my system (although that's another story). But the fact remains that the AU format, while technically superior to VST *on paper*, is still half-baked in its implementation *so far*.
I think you might be reffering to Digital Performer, and I'm not sure how well Motu's previous implementations have been. It seems like Apple don't have any trouble implementing their own standards, though which is the only sequencer (besides Nuendo) that I really can say anything about from personal experience.

There's a right and wrong way of doing things and this is the wrong way. I'll ask again - what if everyone did this ?
 

audiopad

New Member
I'm very happy with the VST load/save menus the way they are.
But you may agree \"follow technical standard\" is right way.
If you like that menu behavior, because it has similar benefit like waves plug-in, i agree with you.
but AU preset is already can do same behavior (and more) in AU support host.

If UA offer stand-alone converter, that is best.
UA doesn't have to make it, like many other company.
but i hope so because already exist in there AU plugin. :>

Remember, the AU format doesn't support banks, only individual presets. How dumb is that?
Because they don't needed.
AU preset support tree structure, so there is no reason to exist bank.
and bank preset(fxb) has many limit and weird action but individual preset aren't.

VST plugin with hundreds of preset is nightmare. so they need banks.
But AU plugin is ok even millions of preset because they are load from directory tree.

AU preset can freely manageable by user, like ordinary file/folder.
can make tree structure, can do add/remove/rename, shared from different host.

I know some host doesn't fully support yet. In my case LIVE4 has limited support.
but they fixed it completely in LIVE5.

and last... sorry for my poor english. :>
 

Dave Bourke

Active Member
Ninja said:
Are you sure you're on the right forum? This is the MAC forum, isn't it? :D
Go to the Windows menu of any properly written Mac OS X application and click on it. Now tell me the full name of the very first command you see there (the shortcut is Command-M).

Ninja said:
All sequencers that support AU correctly should have no problem with loading presets without it being implemented directly into the gui.
Your subtext here is: "Well, MY sequencer does it right. If YOURS doesn't, tough."

Ninja said:
I think you might be reffering to Digital Performer, and I'm not sure how well Motu's previous implementations have been. It seems like Apple don't have any trouble implementing their own standards, though which is the only sequencer (besides Nuendo) that I really can say anything about from personal experience.
Are you sure you're posting in the right thread here? This is a Digital Performer discussion, you know :)

You're correct here, at least. I am indeed referring to Digital Performer which, until version 4.6 was released last week, did not offer any way at all to handle AU presets. And this is STILL nowhere near as comprehensive as Logic's implementation.

And, no, I won't be buying either Logic or Nuendo because I'd rather eat my own arm. :)

Ninja said:
There's a right and wrong way of doing things and this is the wrong way. I'll ask again - what if everyone did this ?
I'd have a much more functional system? :)

Kind regards.
 

Dave Bourke

Active Member
audiopad said:
But you may agree "follow technical standard" is right way.
If you like that menu behavior, because it has similar benefit like waves plug-in, i agree with you.
but AU preset is already can do same behavior (and more) in AU support host.
Well, if UA had "followed the technical standard" and done it the "right way," Digital Performer users would not have been able to use UA plug-ins up till now without adding a further layer of abstraction into the mix (i.e. VSTWrapper or similar - at around $90). I'm very willing to bet that there are many thousands of DP users who are very grateful indeed that UA did it this way.

audiopad said:
If UA offer stand-alone converter, that is best.
UA doesn't have to make it, like many other company.
but i hope so because already exist in there AU plugin. :>
Well, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. For me, the old engineering principle of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is apt here.

audiopad said:
Because they don't needed.
AU preset support tree structure, so there is no reason to exist bank.
and bank preset(fxb) has many limit and weird action but individual preset aren't.

VST plugin with hundreds of preset is nightmare. so they need banks.
But AU plugin is ok even millions of preset because they are load from directory tree.
Yes, I agree that individual presets DO have some organisational advantages. But here's the only difference between banks and individual presets that really matters in the physical world: with a bank, you load it once, then it takes just 128 mouse-clicks to go through all the presets it contains. With individual presets, each one loaded from disk, how many mouse-clicks or keystrokes does it take to go through 128 sounds/effect settings?

I don't believe you'd feel this way if you suffered from Repetitive Stress Injury (as I, and many others, do).

But this whole argument is moot anyway. The only reason I posted in this topic was to make AU aware that not all DP users feel the same way about .aupreset handling in UA plugs. And that's really all I have to say on the matter.

UA have done the right thing in the past (by doing the "wrong thing," according to you), and I trust them to do the right thing again in the future vis a vis this new development in Digital Performer.

Kind regards.
 

audiopad

New Member
I'm very willing to bet that there are many thousands of DP users who are very grateful indeed that UA did it this way.
I don't have experiance with DP.
I understand why you need vst load/save menu before. (and even DP4.6?)
And maybe some other audio application still exist which is incomplete AU preset support, and not everyone use newest version.

(with my app) I don't need VST preset menu in AU Plugin.
So I just want it can hide, or separate utility, as I told.
Not want eliminate that grateful present from UA.

Anyway, this issue not just about beauty of GUI.
I think simple and clear preset management is important.

for worst example, I pick dreamverb on AU format.

1. It has some factory preset bank combined with program module. (same preset exist in individual)
2. and all VST preset access from load/save button on GUI (top left)
3. and also all VST preset access from load/save VST preset button on bottom au bar
4. and also all AU preset(same with vst) access from sequencer's own interface.
5. and saved my own preset access from sequencer's own interface (or SOMEWHERE 2~4)

(1)is not manageable. (2,3) (4) (5) is different each folder.

Is this \"good interface\", because they offer variant way? maybe Yes. maybe Not.
My english is poor, so I can't explain good enough.
I just want manage presets in ONE location,
and want selecting method is clear and simple.

This is why I don't want see vst load/save bar, and don't like banks in AU format.
But still I can ignore optional function. I know.
Maybe I'm under an obsession of this.
Anyway, \"Simple is best\". Isn't it? :wink:

Yes, I agree that individual presets DO have some organisational advantages. But here's the only difference between banks and individual presets that really matters in the physical world: with a bank, you load it once, then it takes just 128 mouse-clicks to go through all the presets it contains. With individual presets, each one loaded from disk, how many mouse-clicks or keystrokes does it take to go through 128 sounds/effect settings
Logic have next/previous key command, and Live have next/previous button.
And of cause don't need switch something(bank) even more than 128 preset.
So same and more effective with individual preset, compare to banks.
But I don't know DP's preset selecting method with individual preset.

And also factory bank cause some problem in older version logic (including my last PC version) and current live4.
So I really hate banks. :>

UA have done the right thing in the past (by doing the \"wrong thing,\" according to you), and I trust them to do the right thing again in the future vis a vis this new development in Digital Performer.
I'm not saying there is \"wrong thing\" in UAD-1 plugin.
It is completely follow standard(I'm not sure with banks), and bonus feature is just additional part.
But if I can make things more simpler, it will feel better and solve some problem.
 
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