Distorted MIC even tough I'm not clipping the input or using pre amps plugins

[kkroe]

Hello, I hope you're all doing well and having a good 2024!

Today I had a friend come over in order to get some vocals recorded, so I thought it would be a good idea to try my new x8p unison pre amps ( :

She brought a Rode NT1, we plugged into Input 1, turned on the Phantom power and I added gain until we were about -12db / -10db, which meant i had to crank the pre amps all the way up to +40 ( i ended up lowering it to like 25-30db later, without noticing much difference ).

When i was tracking on headphones i realised it was sounding somehow unnatural, it sounded like it was clipping even tough the waveform doesn't look clipped at all and we didn't go over 0 at any given point and not only that, at some points it sounded like there was some weird resonance/sine wave-ish tracking her voice.

When listening directly to her voice singing I found out the sound of her voice was very very different from what was being captured.

I uploaded two 20 second examples to my dropbox, you can listen it here.

As much as i would like to blame the budget microphone ( sorry I'm still waiting on my Sphere DLX delivery! ) I got a feeling that I must be essentially doing something wrong ?

Any suggestions / recommendations / help will be really appreciated!

Thank you

 

[LesBrown]

I can hear reflections from the room, which can sound like a very short delay (or several different short delays.) Does the recording space have acoustic treatment?

Rode NT1 should be fine. I bought one based on a demo posted on this forum.

 

[kkroe]

I can hear reflections from the room, which can sound like a very short delay (or several different short delays.) Does the recording space have acoustic treatment?

Rode NT1 should be fine. I bought one based on a demo posted on this forum.

very interesting, we didn't record on a vocal booth but we did record in a room with tons of rock wool, perhaps i should be more worried about dampening all the reflections by position her in a different position in the room.

this comes as a big surprise for me as i never had this sort of issue recording other vocals by other people in this room before, but they were with different microphones, different singers which have very different styles from this particular friend. Also I was using Midas Venice pre amps on previous experiences not that i think the pre amp is the one to blame in this experiment here.

 

[kkroe]

I can hear reflections from the room, which can sound like a very short delay

To be honest if i sing loud or clap i don't hear anything back from the room and when my friend was singing i felt like there was no issues at all, the issues only show on the microphone recording which i find a bit weird and surprising.. I guess I'm just not experienced enough and there is always a first time...

I'll buy a "microphone reflection filter" as in that little half-circle attachment to the stand and hope that this will help or at rule out one of the possible problems.

From this two examples i uploaded i don't quiet feel like they sound distorted or "buzzing" enough to be a good example of the "distortion with no clipping" i heard hearing when recording, but they do sound like a good example of how resonant the recording turned out... Having short reflection pilling up and working as multiple short time delay would explain it.

Perhaps the microphone can pick those reflections up and my ears can't until it's recorded and amplified hence why i was so surprised?

 

[kkroe]

I just bought one of this "anti reflection" attachment for the microphone ( see the image below ) that I can put the microphone inside in order to reduce the reflections and other noises being capture. Unfortunately, i can't build a vocal booth here so i have to try out more versatile / mobile / budget solutions for it.

If you have any other recommendations / suggestions on how the recording could be improved, please please let me know ( :

Thanks a lot for taking your time to read and reply this thread.

 

[RogueM]

actually, without having listened to your clip, I can tell you the NT1A is not suited for soprano range. If you’re lucky you might just about get away not hearing the breaking up as long as you don’t stack the vocal tracks, but it’s really not a great mic for those types of voices (should that be the case).

 

[kkroe]

actually, without having listened to your clip, I can tell you the NT1A is not suited for soprano range.

That's an interesting piece of information, would you mind explaining a bit more in detail so i can understand it and find out those weak points on my own as opposed to just taking your opinion in consideration? What technically make them not suited for soprano?

From googling I figured that Sopranos are expected to sing in the range of 261.63 Hz (middle C) to around 1.2kz, which is where most of her voice sits ( over 300hz ), so in that case you're spot on!

The only detail is that she is sort of "chanting" in this recording and I can see on my spectrogram when listening the full recording that sometimes she goes as low as 176hz.

Which microphone would you recommend for recording her ( if possible around the same budget ) and why do you believe it would perform better than the NT1?

I apologise in advance for making so many questions and trying to extract even more info and spend even more of your time, I'm just very new to the world of recording and microphones ( i have been recording instruments through line input for a long time but only recently i have the need of recording voice and instruments using microphones ) and i really want to learn and understand the ins and outs of it.

Thanks a lot for your time and patience.

 

[RogueM]

Sure, I can only relate my own experience though, but as soon as I read your post it felt they mirrored mine…

The NT1 was my first condenser mic, I picked one up on first release (15 years ago?) and was quite pleased to start with as the noise floor is exceptionally low for a mic at that price point. BUT…

I quickly started noticing something unnatural on my recordings, like a metallic ringing, particularly as I started laying high-pitch backing vocals (4-8 in unison). My range is best described as countertenor, which means I can stretch relatively comfortably to the lower soprano part.

I also push out a lot of air/volume so at first I thought it was some kind of distortion due to the pressure I apply on the capsule, so I tried to sing further away, softer, reduce room reflections, etc. Nothing really worked, besides singing the parts one or two octaves lower.

I ended up giving the mic away and the engineer I gave it to, whose wife is also a singer, concluded the same thing, it’s not great to record female vocals, and best used to record (certain) instruments or voice over. You should make your own mind up though.

As to what I’d recommend, I personally use a variety of Sontronics and to me they are one of the best around to build a versatile mic cabinet without breaking the bank too much. The Aria would be my pick for alto/soprano, but at a lower price point the Orpheus is excellent and super versatile.

… those are not in the NT1 price range though and could be difficult to pick up states side. I don’t know what you can find that would be a ‘good fit’ for a particular singer in the sub $500, that can’t be answered without trial and error IMO. I’d say wait for the DLX and give it a go as a first step (I have a L22 which I use and love although I return to my Sontronics more often than not for sources I am familiar with, my own and my partner’s voice specifically).

 

[RogueM]

That said I do think that @LesBrown has a point about room, first and second reflections can absolutely kill a recording, and may impact more a ‘quiet’ / fluttery singer, as the S/N(R) ratio will be significant.

PS: I have now listened to your extract, IMO it’s not enough to conclude much, you’d have to record different sources or at least make her sing different parts and from different positions to possibly pinpoint a potential first factor in the issue you noticed.

 

[LesBrown]

I listened more closely, and it sounds more like distortion, as if the singer was too close to the mic or the gain is too high somewhere. How far was the mic from the singer's lips? Otherwise, RogueM knows. I am only guessing.

 

[DanButsu]

It indeed sounds "too close". Here is a basic go to mic placement for large condensers that is a great starting point.

First aim the mic's capsule at the persons' eyes


Then tilt it downwards towards the mouth


Lastly, a good starting point for the pop-filter is one fist distance from the capsule, and have the signer stay one fist away from the pop-filter*



*Of course a good signer will know when to move closer for intimate parts and back off for louder belted parts, but again, as an engineer, this is my starting point.

YMMV, but this is my go to starting point. I'll adjust if I need to based on the morphology of the persons face/mouth (sound from a person's mouth usually come out of one side more than the other, look at the person signing and you can often even see it). Time permitting, I'll move the mic from side to side to hear the difference, if any.

Images from Bobby Owsinski's Audio Recording Techniques Course
https://www.linkedin.com/learning/audio-recording-techniques

 

[RogueM]

Otherwise, RogueM knows. I am only guessing.

me too. But I think the mic has a low SPL tolerance certainly, that was my first guess. Could be fairly frequency dependent, plausible too.

 

[kkroe]

@LesBrown @RogueM and @DanButsu i can't thank you enough for all your advice and knowledge here, i have nothing more to say now than a "big thank you" !!!

I'll be meeting with the same singer again in a couple days and i can't wait to do all those tests and experiments and come up with a much better recording.

I'll report back!

again thank you so much for your time and kindness sharing your knowledge.