Doubling effect when Recording in Pro Tools

[trackone]

I am starting to hear a doubling when I record in Pro Tools. I have Low Latency Monitoring turned on. This has not been an issue in the past, but started today. I have narrowed it down I think to "Sends Persist when LLM".

I used to have "Sends Persist when LLM" turned on and worked that way, but today I turned it off. Since turning it off it appears that the sends persist regardless.

I trashed the preferences and restarted. I thought it might be a corrupted session file so I created a blank session with 1 Audio track and 1 Aux track. I had a reverb (UAD Lexicon 224) on the AUX being fed from the Audio track. Both tracks output are set to MON L/R. "Sends Persist when LLM" is OFF. I have "Mute Arm enabled tracks when stopped" ON. The interface I am using is a Universal Audio Apollo x4. I hear the input fine thru Console and the "Mute Arm enabled tracks when stopped" is working as expected. As soon as I enter into record the send persists to the Reverb and I hear a doubling effect. I can mute the send to the Reverb and the doubling effect stops. I can also mute the output of the Audio track and the doubling effect stops.

I have opened a ticket with Avid, but thought I would ask here as well. Is there something I may be overlooking?

 

[trackone]

I just trashed preferences again, but this time I only created 1 audio track. I also made it a point not to change any preferences. Sends persist is off by default and it would not matter as I only have 1 track with no send. Enabled LLM. I muted the track in the Apollo console. Hit record and the doubling effect is still there.

The thing with LLM monitoring is that it is supposed to kill the output of any record enabled track when recording, so I should have not heard anything with the track being muted in console. So that makes me believe that LLM is not even working.

 

[trackone]

I just tested with another interface and LLM works as expected. It is not working with the x4. Is there a way to trash the Apollo Preferences or should I re-install the Apollo software?

 

[trackone]

Finally got it solved. I restarted the Apollo, reset the I/O Matrix in the Apollo and LLM is working now. I have no idea why this happened.

 

[trackone]

After working with this some more I have noticed that the LLM works only when I have the Apollo I/O Matrix set to Default. I had a custom layout I/O setup and when trying to use that the LLM breaks. I have used this custom I/O in the past with no issues. The thing I suspect what might be causing it, is that the MON L/R is not in the first two outputs. Could something have changed? This seems to be happenning since upgrading to 11.1.

 

[Matt Hepworth]

You might want to give a look at the PT setup video I did (see signature).

LLM should be checked, but you also need to make sure Apollo's auxes are muted, if you're not using them for something specific.

 

[trackone]

Matt, I have watched that video a while back. I have always used LLM with PT and the AUX in Console is out of the picture. Something has changed.

It used to be that LLM always used outputs 1&2 in PT. In PT 2018.7 it was changed where any output could be used. I tested further with just 1 audio track, no sends anywhere and noticed that for LLM to work correctly, the PT track in record had to have its output set to what ever the Monitor output was assigned to in the PT I/O setup.

I have always used a PT template where all of my tracks output to an AUX track that is my mixbus. The mixbus feeds a stereo audio track where the mix is printed and that print track outputs to the monitor output. I always mix in real time to the print track.

When record enabling or input monitoring a track, it's output was always muted, no matter where it's output was assigned. Now it is passing audio to its output which in my case, goes to the mixbus. That is where I hear the doubling. If I set the output of the record enabled track to where the monitor output was assigned in the PT I/O setup, it works as expected. This was not the case before. Now I'm thinking this may have changed in the last PT update.

BTW, in regards to your video, I have tested the LLM several ways. I have always been perticular in the way the artist hears themseleves when tracking, especially with punch ins. If reverb is being used, it needs to be seemless. I have tried the "sends persist" method, as well as outputting the record enabled track to a virtual output to console, or having the same reverb with the same setting in both Console and in PT on an Aux.

 

[trackone]

I need to make a correction to my previous update. I tried this again today just to double check my settings. Where I made the comment:
"If I set the output of the record enabled track to where the monitor output was assigned in the PT I/O setup, it works as expected."

This is incorrect. It appears the the monitor path in the PT I/O setup and in the Apollo I/O setup, must be outputs 1&2 for LLM to work correctly.

This seems to reverse what the 2018.7 update did.

 

[trackone]

Well come to find it was, actually something totally different than where I was focusing my efforts. Somehow there was a difference in the AFL/PFL path I was overlooking. Unless the AFL/PFL path was set to outputs 1&2 the doubling affect occurred. Of course I was in SIP mode and you cannot use AFL/PFL in LLM. I know what AFL/PFL modes are are when might be a case to use them, but not sure why that path would have mattered if not in one of those two modes.

 

[Matt Hepworth]

Well come to find it was, actually something totally different than where I was focusing my efforts. Somehow there was a difference in the AFL/PFL path I was overlooking. Unless the AFL/PFL path was set to outputs 1&2 the doubling affect occurred. Of course I was in SIP mode and you cannot use AFL/PFL in LLM. I know what AFL/PFL modes are are when might be a case to use them, but not sure why that path would have mattered if not in one of those two modes.

Interesting. Glad you resolved it!

 

[camilovelandiamusic]

Well come to find it was, actually something totally different than where I was focusing my efforts. Somehow there was a difference in the AFL/PFL path I was overlooking. Unless the AFL/PFL path was set to outputs 1&2 the doubling affect occurred. Of course I was in SIP mode and you cannot use AFL/PFL in LLM. I know what AFL/PFL modes are are when might be a case to use them, but not sure why that path would have mattered if not in one of those two modes.

Can you explain this some more? I've been having the same problem for a month now. I import a template which is some blank tracks routed to a Routing Folder, and then to the Master. Somehow, the LLM is not muting if the tracks are bussed to the folder, however, if I route to the master, it works. I am unable to track through folders, and it worked perfectly for hundreds of sessions before mid June.

I have trashed Protools preferences twice. I have reinstalled Protools, and UAD. I have reset my Matrix countless times. I have sent my template to two engineers and it works perfectly for them, somehow not for me. Only thing I have not done is a factory reset on the Apollo. I have almost given up. You're the first person I have found in a month of searching that has the same problem. Everyone else misunderstands and just tells me I can't track through auxes or folders even though I've done it hundreds of times.

 

[camilovelandiamusic]

I figured it out! Holy cow man! I would've never ever ever guessed that, and I've read everything. Wow. I'm so grateful, thanks @trackone

Set AFL/PFL Path from "none" to MON L/R and it did it. Jesus. I can sleep now.

 

[trackone]

You set it from none to MON L/R. Is MON L/R in your outputs in slots 1&2 in the I/O matrix, meaning the first two output slots? Also, how is your setting in Preferences under the Mixing tab "Sends Persist during LLM"? That setting can also have an affect on LLM in conjunction with the AFL/PFL path setting.

 

[camilovelandiamusic]

You set it from none to MON L/R. Is MON L/R in your outputs in slots 1&2 in the I/O matrix, meaning the first two output slots? Also, how is your setting in Preferences under the Mixing tab "Sends Persist during LLM"? That setting can also have an affect on LLM in conjunction with the AFL/PFL path setting.

At some point I think I had moved the MON L/R outs from the UAD Matrix somewhere else, as per the recommendation of a YouTube video, but after doing all these restarts and resets, I've had MON L/R in Out 1-2 as the default.

"Allow Sends to persist during LLM" is off. That was one preference I came across at the beginning of this issue, but I had it in the correct setting from the beginning, which was off in my case.

 

[trackone]

I figured that was the way it was set. For me my MON L/R is not 1-2, so I have to select output 1-2 in the AFL/PFL path. I have inputs to outputs lining up for inserts in Pro tools, so that is why MON L/R is not 1-2. However, that is only when "Allow Sends to persist during LLM" is off.

If you enable "Allow Sends to persist during LLM" you can actually set the AFL/PFL path to any output and the LLM will work fine. In my current setup I have the "Allow Sends to persist during LLM" on and my AFL/PFL set to none. You cannot use LLM and enable AFL/PFL at the same time.

 

[raphaeld]

I figured that was the way it was set. For me my MON L/R is not 1-2, so I have to select output 1-2 in the AFL/PFL path. I have inputs to outputs lining up for inserts in Pro tools, so that is why MON L/R is not 1-2. However, that is only when "Allow Sends to persist during LLM" is off.

If you enable "Allow Sends to persist during LLM" you can actually set the AFL/PFL path to any output and the LLM will work fine. In my current setup I have the "Allow Sends to persist during LLM" on and my AFL/PFL set to none. You cannot use LLM and enable AFL/PFL at the same time.

THANK YOU so much for this. It took me hours to fix this. I used to put the recording fader down to infinity as a work around because I wanted to get my tracks done but yesterday I was doing some vocal punch-ins and having the fader down prevents you from hearing the pre-roll. I said enough and I bashed my head against the wall for literally 4 hours (we’ve all been there). This fixed it. THANK YOU THANK YOU