Good Reference cds to use when mixing

[Dr_Jones]

Looking for some recommendations from the engineers here as to what they use (or would recommend) as reference cds for mixing.

 

[Disper]

I read in a book about mixing that Donald Fagen's \"The Nightfly\" is considered a \"standard\" mixing target...

fwiw...

 

[Rankus]

In my case songs rather than albums:


Currently Gwen Steffanie \"What You Waitin For\" , (Best use of compressors ever!)
OutKast \"Hey Ya\",
Mystic Krewe of The Clearlight \"Electrode\" or \"Trapeze\" (oh baby)
Orange Goblin ...
Or anything by DJ Muggs and Rob Hill


Great topic!

 

[MASSIVE Mastering]

Steely Dan's \"Aja\" and Pink Floyd's \"Dark Side of the Moon\" are two all-time favorites to get the ears accustomed to \"nice sound.\"

 

[akisd28]

All 3 Garbage CDs - I find they sound extremely balanced.

 

[Dr_Jones]

Thanks disper, rick and john. Next question.
Are these recommendations good for all kinds of music? ie are the mixing principles highlighted by each recommendation relevant for classical, country, modern rock etc. or do you guys like to listen to different reference materials for each style of music you are working on?

 

[Dr_Jones]

oh and thanks for your input as well Akis (your post popped up after my response). I agree with you regarding garbage. I have always been a fan of Butch Vig's work (plus I've always had a crush on Shirley Manson :?)

 

[rEalm]

I always reference based on the style of music. For rock tunes, Garbage or \"Adore\" by Smashing Pumkins, for dance stuff I use Deepsky's \"In Silico\" or Hybrid's \"Sci-Fi Morning\". Popish tracks I use Dada's \"Puzzle\", which is probably the best mixed CD I've ever heard (Clearmountain, go figure).

To be honest though, I really don't like using reference CDs beyond the first couple of months after I get new monitors or change the layout of my studio. It's a good tool to get yourself reaquainted with how things sound after a studio change, but after that I prefer to mix my songs so they sound like ME and my style, not like another CD.

 

[MASSIVE Mastering]

I agree (rEalm gets the square) on the basic reasons for using reference tracks. Reference discs are wonderful for getting the feel of monitors or a room, or getting used to the changes after tweaking a room or system.

Look for something as clear as possible, with lots of \"space,\" clear highs and tight, but natural sounding lows, and as little compression as possible. Try to establish a baseline of \"spectrally pleasant\" sound and explore from there. I don't even go as far as using genre-specific recordings.

Using (dare I say it...) \"over-mastered\" recordings fools your ears into establishing a benchmark that really isn't realistic from the start. Not unlike throwing a BBE or aural exciter on something that sounds perfectly good, then turning it off and everything sounds \"dull.\"

 

[rEalm]

Another good point from Massive, it's really hard to mix against today's CDs since they are usually way overcompressed in the pre-mastering phase (sniff sniff). So you're trying to mix to a standard that's going to be really hard to achieve without using too much compression on the master outs (which is BAD, BAD!) , you'll be chasing your tail.

 

[Disper]

I would say that it is good to study how in a good mix the frequencies don't conflict and interfere with the different instruments and how they are placed in the soundfield... since the mixer is making adjustments on the individual tracks in a project...

It is tempting to put stuff on the final stereo bus to try to \"correct\" (mask) poor separation, levels, or placement... and since we are looking for that commercial \"sound\"...
But since the mastering engineer is working w/ the stereo mixdown... this is really their 'role' so to speak... (their job IS the output bus)...

 

[brian]

Most of these picks are based on what I think are exceptionally creative/dense/exciting mixes as well as audio quality and overall balance.

Overall:
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon

Jazz combos:
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (sounds very very live and natural)
Dave Brubek - Time Out (nice intimate mix)

Rock:
Soundgarden - Superunknown (especially great drum sounds)
Foo Fighters - Color and the Shape (also great drum sounds)

Rock + electronic elements:
Radiohead - OK Computer
Martin Gretch - Open Heart Zoo (very complex mixes)
Sneaker Pimps - Splinter (excellent bg vox, superb depth)

Hard Rock:
Tool - Lateralus, Aenima (slightly harsh but it fits the music)

Mixed Electronic, etc:
Bjork - Vespertine (great mix of vox/symphonic parts with electronics)
Sphongle - Tales of the Inexpressible (amazingly complex)
Adam F - Colours
Nine Inch Nails - The Fragile
Dead Can Dance - Into the Labrynth (amazing clarity and vocals)

 

[Dr_Jones]

that's a very sound list. Thanks Brian!

 

[brian]

Just thought of another few. For a great live band sound, check:

Phish - A Live One

And let me also add some more Floyd albums:

Wish You Were Here
The Wall

 

[Dr_Jones]

I always wondered about this. When you play live, do you \"sound check\" your PA system with a reference cd to see how it sounds in that particular environment?

 

[MASSIVE Mastering]

When I'm working FOH, I normally shoot pink noise (but normally without the RTA - I just sort of go \"by feel\") for a bit and then reference with a CD that I made that has tunes with several different deficiencies, and some really great sounding stuff. Tweak to taste.

 

[Dr_Jones]

John, is the reason you have tunes with deficiencies to simulate the effect a crowd will have on the music (in those specific frequencies)?

 

[brian]

If you are mixing acoustic guitars and can't listen directly in the tracking room...

Al DiMeola, John Maclaughlin, Paco de Lucia - Friday Night in SF

I think with live mixing, you should just go with what sounds good in a few different positions in the audience. If you try playing material when the venue is empty to get an idea of a target sound, it won't really come out so well when the place is full. I don't have much experience in this field yet, but I just try standing in different places in the back and making sure each instrument is as clear as possible...unless the musician is crappy, then you should bury his instrument! Of course, EQ out any nasty resonances or feedback that pops up during the performance. These things usually won't pop up until they start playing in my (limited) experience.

 

[MASSIVE Mastering]

Dr Jones -

Basically, I use them to see how the room reacts to specific type of mixes - I try to cover the main goofieness - Bassy, muddy, honky, pissy, hissy, etc. Some rooms and systems deal with certain problems easily, some don't.

So, when the band rolls in, I have a good idea how the room will react, pretty much no matter how they sound.

 

[boody]

meshell n'degeocello - bitter

cheers,
budy