How to record loud vocals?? From warm soft- to loud vocals?

[Archer7]

Hi,

We're a couple working on a project song that means a lot to us, as we've written it for someone going through something tough.

My voice is a mid-range alto, the song has a range that puts me above my favorite note places in the chorus. The chorus reaches and strives in the singing... WE're on the mountaintop in the vocal celebration during the chorus.

During the recording, the verses are nice alto low and mid-tones, close up, warm, a touch of reverb to enhance the soft smooth tones. However, this does "NOT" translate into the chorus. During the chorus, my voice changes as it strives into upward notes, causing it to be a bit thinner at times, and also - loud - the chorus is all loud, the verses are all comfortable and soft/confident.

How do we get this recording to transition smoothly from the verses & prechorus into the chorus? What do we need to do, how should we be dialing in? Any video help out there concerning loud singing? And when it turns thin it loses the soft body of the voice - how can we achieve a close up warm sound on a higher pitched loud voice?

We've tried the compression, we just tried a UAD limiter pre-amp. It's not working out, so we're calling it a day. I'm reaching out to you to ask for your help.

I would like in the end, to have the soft, warm, close-up alto vocals in the front of the song - to translate smoothly somehow to the end of the pre-chorus and chorus.

What do we need to do? We sure need your help, advice, suggestions, video-helps, etc - thank you in advance.


**********************************
Everyone who has responded -- THANK YOU SO MUCH for your great ideas!! PLease keep them rolling in. We'll keep working on this (it may be a few days) and we'll let you know what is working -- YOUR HELP IS SO APPRECIATED!

 

[rodd]

I was going to say compression, but you’ve tried that. But you really have to try different ones, focus on those that have tubes in the real models like the la-2a or 175/176, or the Fairchild. You can also try the Manley vari-mu. You could also try putting a tape emulator like the studer a800 or ampex atr-102 in the chain, that will let you add some tape saturation to tame down some of the harshness of the louder/high parts. Also, using tube eqs like the pultec, even if you aren’t adding or cutting anything. All of these things will add saturation and harmonics that will make it more pleasant sounding, but you just have to experiment and find combinations that you like.

 

[CaptKirk66]

Back up from the mic when you sing loud?

 

[Nyoak34]

Hi,

We're a couple working on a project song that means a lot to us, as we've written it for someone going through something tough.

My voice is a mid-range alto, the song has a range that puts me above my favorite note places in the chorus. The chorus reaches and strives in the singing... WE're on the mountaintop in the vocal celebration during the chorus.

During the recording, the verses are nice alto low and mid-tones, close up, warm, a touch of reverb to enhance the soft smooth tones. However, this does "NOT" translate into the chorus. During the chorus, my voice changes as it strives into upward notes, causing it to be a bit thinner at times, and also - loud - the chorus is all loud, the verses are all comfortable and soft/confident.

How do we get this recording to transition smoothly from the verses & prechorus into the chorus? What do we need to do, how should we be dialing in? Any video help out there concerning loud singing? And when it turns thin it loses the soft body of the voice - how can we achieve a close up warm sound on a higher pitched loud voice?

We've tried the compression, we just tried a UAD limiter pre-amp. It's not working out, so we're calling it a day. I'm reaching out to you to ask for your help.

I would like in the end, to have the soft, warm, close-up alto vocals in the front of the song - to translate smoothly somehow to the end of the pre-chorus and chorus.

What do we need to do? We sure need your help, advice, suggestions, video-helps, etc - thank you in advance.

If you take a step back, the answer is in the question. You either need to alter the performance/delivery or break it up into sections that you treat differently. Split it into different tracks and process it differently. If you have a very dynamic performance, you might need different compression settings, in particular, on different parts of the song. If you have one comp it's going to CLAMP down on the particularly loud parts and do nothing on other parts. Consider splitting it out like entirely different instruments.

 

[Greytop]

Back up from the mic when you sing loud?

yes, this probably the best solution...work the mic a bit better.

 

[UA_User]

Mic technique and 3db compression will do the job.

What microphone are you using? Some are more forgiving than others.

 

[bellows and brass]

many ways to skin a cat.
one way…

1st take soft vocals, preamp gain up
2nd take. Belting vocals, pre amp gain down.

 

[UA_User]

many ways to skin a cat.
one way…

1st take soft vocals, preamp gain up
2nd take. Belting vocals, pre amp gain down.

What if the "magic" happens and the singer keeps going into the loud part and gets the unrepeatable perfect take, and its all distorted? Maybe set up two mics and two preamps, just in case!

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

Use a dynamic mic.

 

[bellows and brass]

What if the "magic" happens and the singer keeps going into the loud part and gets the unrepeatable perfect take, and its all distorted? Maybe set up two mics and two preamps, just in case!

what if they choke on a sandwich during a lunch break? better have the ambulance on standby.

i would suspect that if that singer was that much of numpty to not follow the instructions to just sing the quiet bits, most likely any and everything they do is unrepeatable!

 

[UA_User]

what if they choke on a sandwich during a lunch break? better have the ambulance on standby.

i would suspect that if that singer was that much of numpty to not follow the instructions to just sing the quiet bits, most likely any and everything they do is unrepeatable!

The singer is the thread starter.

Two-mic recording technique has a long and successful career for capturing vocals.

Piecemeal vocal recording works too, for those with experience and comfort in the studio.

 

[Matt Hepworth]

What if the "magic" happens and the singer keeps going into the loud part and gets the unrepeatable perfect take, and its all distorted? Maybe set up two mics and two preamps, just in case!

This just happened with a vocalist yesterday. Did a quick level check on the vocal, then the very firsf take a magical performance happened. Section louder than expected hit and it jumped 20dB and clipped the crap out of the U87. Fortunately, I had an SM7 up as well, so just used that. 90% of that first take made the final. I was so glad I'd set both up.

 

[UA_User]

This just happened with a vocalist yesterday. Did a quick level check on the vocal, then the very firsf take a magical performance happened. Section louder than expected hit and it jumped 20dB and clipped the crap out of the U87. Fortunately, I had an SM7 up as well, so just used that. 90% of that first take made the final. I was so glad I'd set both up.

All these sorts of matters even apply to recording oneself, I've found. My scratch or practice takes end up being the keepers sometimes, so I try to make sure everything is setup, just in case.

 

[rjjuly]

I will often use a single mic into a transformer-based mic splitter, into two mic pres, one set lower.
Something like this:

Radial Engineering JS 2

1 in 2 Microfoonsplitter Jensen transformator voor hoge geluidskwaliteit, Aansluitingen: XLR in/through/out, Verwisselbare 30 dB Pad, Verwisselbare Gnd/Lift, Robuuste metalen behuizing, Installatie tot aan 8 stuks met Radial J-Rack 2 HE/19" mogelijk

www.google.com

- Richard
p.s. Sorry about the Dutch description - happen to be in amsterdam at the moment…

 

[Gary D]

If the song demand multiple approaches from section to section, I will always deal with them as such where possible, treating each as separate track, recording and processing each according to the dynamics required.
Apart from that, assuming that there are no obvious technical issues with clipping etc , sometimes I will split a take to different tracks so that I can easily deal with the processing of each section of the performance .

This all assumes, good mic technique, a good performance and a solid recoding.

 

[Archer7]

I was going to say compression, but you’ve tried that. But you really have to try different ones, focus on those that have tubes in the real models like the la-2a or 175/176, or the Fairchild. You can also try the Manley vari-mu. You could also try putting a tape emulator like the studer a800 or ampex atr-102 in the chain, that will let you add some tape saturation to tame down some of the harshness of the louder/high parts. Also, using tube eqs like the pultec, even if you aren’t adding or cutting anything. All of these things will add saturation and harmonics that will make it more pleasant sounding, but you just have to experiment and find combinations that you like.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and help with your thoughts.

 

[Archer7]

Back up from the mic when you sing loud?

Thank you. Tried that too, stepping away brings in more room song, and leaves the voice father away than that nice close up sound. Trying to figure this out. Using the limiter definitely helped smooth things out - but then it';s all "far away" sounding to some degree - in contrast with the warm close-up verses.

 

[Archer7]

If you take a step back, the answer is in the question. You either need to alter the performance/delivery or break it up into sections that you treat differently. Split it into different tracks and process it differently. If you have a very dynamic performance, you might need different compression settings, in particular, on different parts of the song. If you have one comp it's going to CLAMP down on the particularly loud parts and do nothing on other parts. Consider splitting it out like entirely different instruments.

Thank you, we're doing that too. WE have the verses and settings separated out from the louder portions. I'm wondering, how does someone record loud vocals so that they end up sounding closer up and warm?

 

[Archer7]

Mic technique and 3db compression will do the job.

What microphone are you using? Some are more forgiving than others.

Thank you so much. What is 3db compression, where do I get it?

We're using the SHURE SM7B.

 

[Archer7]

many ways to skin a cat.
one way…

1st take soft vocals, preamp gain up
2nd take. Belting vocals, pre amp gain down.

Thank you.

Yes, we're doing this too.

Some of the trouble I'm having.... The compression wouldn't do the job even with the gain down - (maybe we need to try this again.)

So we tried a limiter yesterday. The limiter made an amazing difference in smoothing out the transition - so let's say we have the loud part on a different track sung with the limiter... Now put the tracks together and while the transition from the soft upfront warm vocals in the verse are more smoothly transitioned to the louder pre-chorus and chorus, yet the limiter adds some kind of different quality. Not quite sure how to explain, but like slightly hazy, and with me a little farther away, and the gain is down. thinking maybe we do need to try this again with the gain up. About 18" away from mic.