I Really Want To Get A Handle On This Bus Compression Thing

[Suntower]

Hi,

I've been experimenting with Fairchild on the output buss and MAN, to use a metaphor, it's like frickin' NUCLEAR POWER... fantastic in some ways... horrifying as hell in others. I must be doing something wrong.

What it -does- is
---'Glues' the bass and kick together. I finally get what that's all about. FANTASTIC.

---But on the dark side... It's making it -impossible- to get the vocals to be properly positioned. It seems that everything else (pads, guitars, hi-hat) are also -glued- together. BAD!

Any ideas on how to keep the low end glue without losing the separation and airiness in the mids/hi-end?

Am I making sense?

---JC

 

[Plec]

Umm.. how about sending all your \"low-end\" tracks to a group track called Low-End, and apply the Fairchild to that Group?

 

[brian]

Yea multi bus compression is the way to go.

Get maybe 3 groups going with different compressors on them and route individual elements as you see fit.

 

[saemskin]

I like to split into 5 busses.
1-drums
2-bass
3-other perc
4-effects sends (I have several pieces of external fx boxes)
5-synth bus
then a 6th if I add vocals or spoken samples

 

[BTLG]

Suntower -

Are you mixing into the compressor?

Esoteric terms like 'glue' and \"separation\" are always lost upon me. What are you looking for the compressor to do?

 

[Dan Duskin]

From your description, I'm wondering if you are using it in LAT-VERT mode... (if so, start by turning that off)

 

[bedhoe]

Suntower -

Are you mixing into the compressor?

Esoteric terms like 'glue' and "separation" are always lost upon me. What are you looking for the compressor to do?

I absolutely agree. Mixing INTO the compressor is the main secret.
If you only slap on a comp after you're finished nothing will sound right.

 

[Dan Duskin]

Suntower -

Are you mixing into the compressor?

Esoteric terms like 'glue' and "separation" are always lost upon me. What are you looking for the compressor to do?

I absolutely agree. Mixing INTO the compressor is the main secret.
If you only slap on a comp after you're finished nothing will sound right.

I also agree with this! You cannot use a bus-compressor and not mix to it... otherwise you are mastering...
(or just screwing stuff up) ;P

(again, make sure you're not in LAT-VERT mode, I think that might be part of your problem)

 

[Suntower]

Nope. And I'm not using Lat-Vert Mode neither (I don't think I'm advanced enough to even think about M-S stuff.)

But I noticed that so many people do use a comp on the main buss, so I started from scratch with Fairchild on the main buss in what I thought was a fairly innocuous setting... Time = 1, peak reduction .5 - 1db.

And the immediate effect on the bass/drums was FANTASTIC. Like a 70's record where the kick and picked e-bass just -lock- and together with the snare just sound like one tight unit. Great.

But then, as I tried to get the pads and the vocals to sit properly I found that everything in the mids/highs were fighting back. Every time I pushed the high-mid pads down they insisted on staying right where they were. And the vocal (baritone) kept sounding either weak or too 'in your face'. Didn't matter how much delay or 'verb I'd try---it just -wanted- to be up front.

I'm oversimplifying, of course, but it just seems like Fairchild is -very- frequency dependent. It's like it wants to push the low and high mids and keep down the real lows and highs --- as if it was designed to push material into an AM radio.

I'm probably just talking out of my ass, but I guess what I'm looking for is a way to keep using it, but with a bit -less- 'character'.

Again, I'm probably not using the proper terminology. Sorry.

---JC

Suntower -

Are you mixing into the compressor?

Esoteric terms like 'glue' and "separation" are always lost upon me. What are you looking for the compressor to do?

 

[Macc]

Use it on groups/submixes to get the character and/or glue but only on the bits you need. It's gloooorious (when it isn't eating all your low end).

 

[BTLG]

setting 1 is a REALLY aggressive setting, which is probably why your kick and bass sound good and punchy while everything else sounds bad. Try 5 or 6.

Also try setting the calibration a little more gently. This will make the compression a bit less obvious. You ideally want to see between 1 and 2 dB of reduction. Anything beyond that will start sound like it's pumping the compressor.

What's happening is that your kick, bass, snare (which are probably the driving rhythmic force in the song) are triggering the compressor and ducking everything else immediately after crossing the threshold. It makes for real tight drums but it will kill anything immediately following the transient.

The timing reacts similarly to the 33609 in general, going from fast to slow as the numbers go up from 1-4 and then 5 and 6 are a little more gentle and program based.

Hope it helps you

Matt

 

[imdrecordings]

I haven't had much luck with the F-670 on the bus.
It can accentuate the upper mid a bit too much.
Haven't had much luck with it at all, unless the material is Beatles es-ck!
Try using an 1176LN with the attack all the way slow (turned all the way to the left) and the release as fast as it can be (turned all the way to the right).
Use 4:1 ( I wish it did 2:1 for a bus comp \"Distressor anyone?\")
Take out -2 or -4db of compression on the GR Meter.
The Waves SSL works really well and is pretty transparent.
I set that one up with the slowest attack, fastest release, 2:1 and around -3 or -4db GR.
I'm not a fan of mixing into a compressor, so maybe I don't qualify to answer.
But this is the typical way to start.
I often setup as many compressors that I have, on the bus and give them all similar settings. A,b and C'ing all of them on the same material.
To see witch one works best.

 

[Suntower]

Thanks BTLG... Setting 4 helped. Of course, as you predicted, it reduces the tight wonderfulness of the low end, but compromises had to be made.

[RANT]
One reason I shy away from Fairchild is this... MEMORISATION. And a beef I have with 'Vintage'. Yeah, if you already -know- these beasts, then it's great that they work like the originals, but if you don't? Ya need to keep the manual at hand every time you work it.

Oh, for an alternate interface with standardised 'Attack' 'Release' 'Knee' controls on all UA plugs instead of having to suss the religious mysteries of 'calibration' screws and whether Position 1 or Position 5 is the one with the 'Program Specific' release time!
[/RANT]

I definitely am learning a lot about why this is a great technique, but I wish it didn't require quite so much effort.

THANKS!

---JC

 

[Paul Woodlock]

Thanks BTLG... Setting 4 helped. Of course, as you predicted, it reduces the tight wonderfulness of the low end, but compromises had to be made.

...

As suggested.. set up two groups before your master bus and insert fairchild that sounds great for drums and bass on group 1 and fairchild that soudnds great on everything else on group 2. Route channels accordingly.

 

[Paul Woodlock]

Try using an 1176LN with the attack all the way slow (turned all the way to the left) and the release as fast as it can be (turned all the way to the right).
Use 4:1 ( I wish it did 2:1 for a bus comp "Distressor anyone?")
Take out -2 or -4db of compression on the GR Meter.
The Waves SSL works really well and is pretty transparent.
I set that one up with the slowest attack, fastest release, 2:1 and around -3 or -4db GR.

I can go along with all that.

I'm not a fan of mixing into a compressor, so maybe I don't qualify to answer.

I wouldn't do anythign else. Why finish a mix and then change it by adding compression afterwards?

 

[imdrecordings]

I've never thought a compressor ever really \"changed the mix\".
Maybe it's sonics. butttttttt...? :?
The mix usually stays as it was intended to be.
Whoever is using a compressor to alter their mix, doesn't realize what a compressor is for or they are using it as an effect. And even then the mix pretty much stays as it was intended to be. Just more compressed.
There is nothing wrong with being bold enough to use a compressor afterward. It can often times help you with your mix, by altering your perspective. Allowing you to go back and make changes, to achieve something similar without strapping an effect across the entire mix.
I personally like my mixes with out a Comp on the mix bus.
I guess the over all theory a lot of mixers stand behind is that if you are compressing the bus, you are less likely to use compression on the individual tracks or you get your mixes closer to what will be played on the radio nearer to what the ME might be doing. I just don't buy it, but W.E.Works for ya! and there are a whole slew of engineers out there that are extremely successful at it.
The thing is, you also run the risk of over compressing.
Do I mix differently, when mixing into a Comp? Sure, but for me it only makes things harder to sound balanced. It can easily sound Hyper-Compressed and become far to cumbersome, when dealing with high track counts. It kind of seems like eating at a wobbly table.
Plus the whole bus compression thing is pretty genre specific IMO.
But what ever has proved be successful for you, awesome.

I hope that answered your question, Paul.
But I have to ask you.
If you know the sound you're going for, why do you need to start with a compressor on the master buss?

 

[Dan Duskin]

Compressors can completely alter a mix.

Here's some examples...
- Slow attacks will push the music down while letting the attack come through, which will make your kick and snare sound louder than it did before.
- Fast attacks can squash the transients, making all the softer non-transient stuff sound louder than it did before.
- Semi-slow releases can really grab the slow (non-transient) sounds and really hold them back.
- Fast releases can release the slower (non-transient) sounds, push them up.

With the above examples... think of what happens to the percieved level of the kick, snare, guitar, pads, vocals, and reverb... they will completely change! The lower the threashold and the higher the ratio, the more it will change the percieved level of these things in your mix.

This is why you mix into a compressor, instead of adding it later. Additionally, by mixing into a compressor you can be certain that when the ME (Mastering Engineer) gets it and tries to increase the volume overall, it won't completely ruin your mix.

If the compressor is really making your mixing life difficult, that means one of 4 things (or a combination of the 4):
- Your levels are out of wack (something is probably too loud)
- You didn't gain-stage properly during recording and mixing
- You have some low-end that needs to be tammed
- Your bus-compressor is compressing too much

 

[Axiology]

One recommendation that I've heard concerning the fairchild and main buss compression, to which I concur, is to have the meters(In GR mode) just moving a small amount during the loudest passages. Don't try to use it to maximize loudness. My standard setting is a tweak of the \"Ocean Way\" preset, with the \"DC Bias\" set to about 2 o'clock ( I think this controls the ratio)

You may be compressing too much with the fairchild and/or the bias setting is too high.

Also i've noticed that unless the balance control's are set at 12 O'Clock the 670 generates a significant amount of subsonic energy.

Andrew
http://www.axiology.ca

 

[Chi-Squared Mastering]

[RANT]
One reason I shy away from Fairchild is this... MEMORISATION. And a beef I have with 'Vintage'. Yeah, if you already -know- these beasts, then it's great that they work like the originals, but if you don't? Ya need to keep the manual at hand every time you work it.

Oh, for an alternate interface with standardised 'Attack' 'Release' 'Knee' controls on all UA plugs instead of having to suss the religious mysteries of 'calibration' screws and whether Position 1 or Position 5 is the one with the 'Program Specific' release time!
[/RANT]

That's a really good point, but I think the solution really is just repetition and memorization.

It's like playing guitar. Guitars don't have every fret labeled A, A#, B, C, C#, etc. There are just a handful of dots marking a few locations, and practice solves the rest. Certainly a 6-position dial is a lot easier to learn than a 24-fret 6-string

So if you like the sound of the Fairchild, just try putting it on more and more sources until you get a better feel for what each setting does, and soon you'll know exactly how to set it up for your bus when you start to mix... And anywhere else you want to use it.