I spend more time Freezing/Rendering than MIXING now.

[NuSkoolTone]

Am I the only one? I swear I spend SO much time Freezing tracks to use the Neve plug-ins that it's SERIOUSLY wreaking havoc on my workflow. If I did this for a living UAD-1's days would be numbered.

I have 3 cards, and while I admit the plugs sound awesome, it's just too easy to max them out these days. I barely get going and then I need to WAIT for a freeze because I've already hit the ceiling. Meanwhile I've lost my train of thought, my vibe/groove/inspiration. This sucks!

I could buy a 4th card, sure, but then what? Buy a Magma, start a new group and buy all new licenses? No Freakin way. Aside from that adding the 4th card is going to be a band-aid solution at BEST.

We need a REAL solution and a REAL hardware upgrade! The new plugs are awesome but the limitations of the hardware is REALLY starting to turn me off.

UA, PLEASE! We've been crying out for this for YEARS! You've been listening wonderfully to everything else we request but just not this one? I mean you guys really have NO CLUE where to go with this? Surely you've looked into it. I mean it must be obvious by now that the UAD-1 is (has) coming to the end of it's lifecycle. It was released like 10 years ago! Amazing you've gotten this kind of mileage, but the time has come!

 

[Awesom-o]

+1

 

[than]

I couldn't agree more. I stopped buying plugs after the 1st Neve demos. Not enough power and I don't want to deal with the frustration of constantly having to freeze tracks. I'm sure UA is working on something because this has to be affecting their sales. It's a shame when I get these discount coupons and end up deleting them because trying to use these plugs is too much of a waste of my time, regardless of the cost.

 

[boody]

look at it at the bright side: I don't think you spend nearly as much time on it as you would be rewinding real tape, you can do it indefinatly which means having indefinite amount of high quality plugs plus the waiting time will actually be good for your ears :wink:

cheers
Budy

 

[afone1977]

+1 with NuSkoolTone,

I'm not looking for the brigth side, but for the better side,

i'm agree with the fact that UA provide us HQ plugin emulation (i trully love it), without the disadvantage of the hardware unit

But freezing and bouncing are not a solution, (it's hard to modify the EQ's parameters when the track is bounced)

actually the UAD-1 hardware is a bit obsolete, 4 stereo / 6 mono EQ ( like neve or helios) per card it is a bit light

about 16 stereo / 32 mono EQ (neve pultec or helios) + 16 stereo / 32 mono COMP (1176, fairchild or neve ...) per card would be so great

 

[Akis]

Sure, a more powerful card would be more than welcome, but seriously: do you need a 'full version' Neve on every track? Do you even need EQ on every track? Personally, the first EQ I reach for is the Sony Oxford and reach for the rest (UAD, URS, AirEQ) when I want a particular colour that they'll give me faster and then again, the 'heavy' Neves are not always necessary - not every track is under the spotlight in a mix.

 

[afone1977]

before neve plugin,

1 card for mixing 8 tracks was great

after neve ,

2 card for mixing those 8 tracks becomes insuffisant,

nobody need 16 neve 33609 on a mix , sure

what i want to say : i need a more powerful card that use only one PCIe space,

flexibility with UA is : 4 card, one magma chassis, ect ect ect..., my mother board got 2 PCIe, 3 PCI (2 UAD PCI, a firewire PCI card, a GPU PCIe card, one PCIe free)

i just want one card with more power, not because my mix needs 86 neve plugin, but just because for me it's ridiculous to use 4 PCI space just to have 4 DSP...

 

[BTLG]

I usually do the mix with SE plug-ins, then when I have them where I want I switch over to the full and do Freezes as needed, doesn't really slow me down that much.

The way I look at it, for now it's an ok trade off since they're arguably the best plugs on the market, and I'm mixing in the box.

 

[afone1977]

the issue with SE version is that non SE version doesn't have the same sound,

when it's good with the 1073 it's not with the SE version

 

[Jeraz]

look at it at the bright side: I don't think you spend nearly as much time on it as you would be rewinding real tape, you can do it indefinatly which means having indefinite amount of high quality plugs plus the waiting time will actually be good for your ears :wink:

cheers
Budy

That would be close to my answer.

Everyone's different. My biggest buzz comes from success getting great tracking before I even open a single plug. I might through an 1176 and a Sonitus or Samplitude EQ or a channel strip on a track just to make sure the tracking is taking EQ and compression well, and to put more of a magnification on a track to point up flaws and possible need for comping or punch-in.

If I've done my tracking well, then I find I need fewer plugs. I read these posts where folks are stacking fifty plugs against a 20 Track project, and I think maybe *I* am doing something wrong. Sometimes their mixes sound better than mine, but sometimes not. I guess 12 separately mic'd tracks of drums can really eat up plugs...but I've heard great drum tracks done with overheads and a couple of other mics too.

And so, I too think about those days of tape...and I pick up my copy of "Behind the Glass" and start reading...hmm...doesn't seem like these guys and gals were using 40' trailers of outboard gear on tape...doesn't seem like George Martin lost his inspiration or vibe mixing a Beatles album while he was bouncing 4-track takes or printing FX to a track. Doesn't seem like Massenbrrg uses seven plugs or signal processors on a track.

I'm not trying to be a wise-guy here, but I do reject the idea that my creativity, train of though, and "vibe" is contigent on how many cards or plugs I can run. I've taken to keeping a notebook at my mixing desk. I journal what's going on. That way, whether it's a track freeze, or my wife calls, my train of thought is kept intact.

More power is a nice-to-have. Good discipline and creative use of what we have is the must-have, IMHO. :wink:

 

[Vocalpoint]

If I've done my tracking well, then I find I need fewer plugs.

Here here. If you have to max your card(s) to apply EQ - you may need to rethink your tracking.

More power is a nice-to-have. Good discipline and creative use of what we have is the must-have, IMHO. :wink:

Yes! Did the Beatles max their UAD's when tracking Revolver....? On a 4 track? Or Led Zep Or Pink Floyd back in the day of 16 tracks or less?

Discipline, creativity and oddly - a general lack of all this unlimited power made these bands and albums sound so great. They were forced by technology to do the very best with what they had.

Just because you have that power - doesn't mean you need to use all of it.

 

[norman_nomad]

I agree that freezing tracks is PIA and does kill workflow, but I guess I don't get guys that are swamping 4+ cards?

Are you using plugs on every track?

I mix a lot of rock/metal/indie stuff and I actually get by pretty well with (gasp) 1 card.

I use mostly buss processing however, and a handful of non-UAD plugs.

I do agree, however, that the UAD processing power is pretty outdated. :!:

 

[pbissell]

Yes...

On the money Jeraz - perfect.
I think everyone here would love an infinite number of plugs on a minimum amount of cards. Everyone. However, there is limitation for everything. I think a workflow that has the following will give amazing and sound:
1) Basic but quality (not the most expensive) outboard gear for tracking
2) A good, flexible DAW that you know well
3) A soild mixdown strategy that uses logical bussing and auxes to spread the love around and knowing WHICH plug ins go where (aka, 1073 on the stereo buss but not the drum 'meat' mic).
I think limitations inspire creativity - and the creativity over restriction gives one a 'sound'. Of course, you can have #1,2 and 3 without the abilty to use it and it would sound not as good.
Again, everyone has their own way based on their needs and style of music. Just my thoughts.

Paul

 

[BTLG]

The SE versions, at least for me, are close enough. It's not like a 1.5 k cut sounds that much different between the two versions. The EQ curves are all the same, the main difference seems to be in fidelity. I think it just takes some experience and getting used to. ITB mixing = different skill set than mixing out from a board.

 

[imdrecordings]

@Cuzin B
Here we go :roll:


I don't think this is a valid argument... you can't compare the recording/mixing techniques to of today to the \"MUSIC\" of yesterday...

I agree with you about the use of power, but some people work differently and I'm not up for discounting their work or habbits by bring up music that doesn't even fit their genra.

 

[BTLG]

That's true, but I do think people need to learn to work within their limitations.

 

[imdrecordings]

That's true, but I do think people need to learn to work within their limitations.

Agreed... I just hate it when people bring up the fk'n Beatles and George Martin thingy. If people want more power give'm more power. People wanted a 72 channel NEVE and they made one...

 

[BTLG]

Agreed. I never said you should try and hammer a nail with an SM57 when there's surely a more effective solution.

 

[boody]

That's true, but I do think people need to learn to work within their limitations.

Agreed... I just hate it when people bring up the fk'n Beatles and George Martin thingy. If people want more power give'm more power. People wanted a 72 channel NEVE and they made one...

I agree with both statements (specialy the 'work with limitations' as it enhances your creativity. I don't think however you can compare UA to a Neve: that's not for the same 'people'. To clarify; I think when people would pay the same as for a Neve desk UA would be the first to deliver :wink:

the biggest workflow drawback on working with a daw to me stays: I need to plan my breaks because nothing else will stop me from working too long shifts... killing my ears and my efficiency... the d**n computer won't even crash these says.... SOMEBODY STOP ME PLEASEEEE :lol:

 

[Jeraz]

That's true, but I do think people need to learn to work within their limitations.

Agreed... I just hate it when people bring up the fk'n Beatles and George Martin thingy. If people want more power give'm more power. People wanted a 72 channel NEVE and they made one...

The point is not to criticize the workflow, or say that shouldn't WANT the power. The point is, what do you do when you can't get it or can't afford it. Let's look at the options:

1)Whine
2)Whine some more
3)Make excuses
4)Make more excuses
5)Develop best practices and creative workarounds to realize your artistic and technical aspirations; contributing what you learn along the way to interested others; and enjoying and incorporating incremental gains from ever-improving technology implementations while maximizing what you currently have and can afford.

Personally, I acknowedge that everyone's priorities and preferences are different. For example, I'd by one UAD-1, and a pair of Gefell UTM-71 microphones or another $2K pre before I'd buy 4 UAD and the plugs to go with them...but if I already had a closet full of great mics and half a dozen great pres, I'd buy some more cards, I guess...always preferences and priorities to deal with. :wink:

So the point of bringing up George Martin had way less to do with era or genre, than it has to do with prioritization, best practice, and excellence.

Edited to correct some typos.