If I Wanted To Really Squash An Acoustic Guitar I'd. . .

[Emerson]

Hi all,

If I wanted to squash an acoustic rythm guitar, what would you use and how would you do it. I want to avoid any distortion and have it just sounding smooth but fairly flat. Thanks to everyone in advance for your help. Oh yeah, I have all the plugins except the PL.

 

[tele]

Depends very much on the guitar and the sound of the recording.
Just try the 3 major UAD compression plugs, Fairchild, LA-2A dn 1176LN. Use the one you like most.

tele

 

[Emerson]

Thanks for your reply.

I guess I wasn't specific enough. I just want to squash the sound of my acoustic (or any acoustic for that matter) which can be done with any limiter/compressor but I wanted suggestions for forum members for settings that they have used with their UAD plugins to really get a squashed sound but without the distortion that can arrise sometimes when doing so.

 

[akisd28]

To avoid distortion, I think you should avoid 1176LN. Regarding the LA-2A, I think that it won't distort no matter how hard you drive it and I think that's the one that's gonna give you the best results; I can't give you any settings... the more you turn it to the right, the more you smash it! :mrgreen: I think the Fairchild would sound too tubey, but you may like it; try it.

 

[Emerson]

Thanks! I'll give it a try. Any suggestions for chaining the plugins to get the squash?

 

[mbarrs]

While you're fooling around with these plugins, don't forget the parallel compression trick. Copy the track you're working with, smash the copy heavily with your favorite compressor (for me it would be Fairchild for acoustic guitar), and bring it up on the fader underneath the original track until you hear the effect you're looking for. It's the best way I know to compress acoustic guitar without killing the transients.

Mike

 

[Rankus]

Hi all,

If I wanted to squash an acoustic rythm guitar, what would you use and how would you do it. .

CAT Steam Roller! ..... If you don't want it quite that flattened perhaps a Pickup Truck? I feel the PU Truck might give you a little more "crunch".

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

[cAPSLOCK]

I just want to squash the sound of my acoustic (or any acoustic for that matter) which can be done with any limiter/compressor but I wanted suggestions for forum members for settings that they have used with their UAD plugins to really get a squashed sound but without the distortion that can arrise sometimes when doing so.

Well I know it is an annoying, sort of obvious answer. But pick a compressor. Don't set the release value too fast, and then compress until it distorts. Back off a bit. Bingo.

Now the less annoying answers.

Try more than one compressor at once. I have found limiting a LA2A compressed track with an 1176 can bring something more forward with a bit more pleasent result than trying to do it all with an LA2A.

Or for something a bit more clinical or modern, get the track to breathe with a compressor of your choice, then limit it with one of the millions of brick wall mastering limiters to make it loud enough.

Your topic says:
\"If I Wanted To Really Squash\". This sounds to me like you are not realy putting the emphesis on compresing for effect as well as volume... though you did say you don't want distortion.

Another thing you can try is doing some 'transparant' limiting to get the volume up and then smooth the edges a little with something like an LA2A (just watch those transients).

Not only is there more than one way to skin a cat... there are also dogs, fish, and grizzley bears.

cAPS

 

[Agent Cooper]

Emerson,
sorry I can't help you, but I'm chasing that sound myself. For me it's that acoustic rhythm guitar \"bed\" you can hear on any generic Nashville production from the last 15 years. Tried lots of things, got a great sounding Gibson Jumbo and good mics (large and small diaphragm) but still I am way off that sound.
I would kill for a real life walkthrough to get this right, there has to be a working recipe for a dumb guy like me ?
Still hoping,
Agent Cooper

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Name a song with this in particular glory if you don't mind.

cAPS

 

[Agent Cooper]

Hi cAPS,
thanks for taking the time !
3 examples of well known country songs with slightly different acoustic sounds, but any one of these would be fine with me :
1. Clint Black - Killing Time
2. Thr Judds - Mama He's Crazy
3. Alan Jackson - Thank God For The Radio
Almost any ballad recorded by the Nashville studio mafia has got a variation on that theme.
Perhaps I should clarify my problem a little bit :
No problem to record a \"natural\", full sounding guitar tone. A large condenser (SP C-1) towards the bridge area and a small one (Neumann KM184) where the neck meets the body, angled approx. 45 degrees towards the headstock.
At least that's how I do it, works great for one solo guitar.
I tried out doubling, mixing in a Nashville strung guitar or a guitar capoed 5 frets higher, each nice in it's own right.
But the single thing I can't achieve is to lose all those bass and midrange frequencies that clutter a mix and still keep the rhythm guitar from sounding harsh and thin in an ugly way. Cambridge's filters helped quite a bit, but still I'm far off the mark.
I must be missing something obvious or making a basic mistake, I don't get it. Here in old Germany these guitars are not very common, so I don't know anyone to ask.
Agent Cooper
still lazy after all those beers ...

 

[registered]

Just a guess:

Play strong, even and clean, and avoid multi-micing.

Just back away from the guitar a little and get a little more natural sound.

Compression will get you more of those rattle-y little sounds you are trying to avoid.

Maybe you have your solo button down too often. A rhythm track doesn't necessarily benefit from the soloist treatment.

Traditional Nashville recordings are known for their simplicity and speedy assembly line approach.

 

[Gulu]

My humble five cents : I would skip the large condenser and stay with the small one in basicaly the same position. Large condensers give you that big sound that you try to avoid.

 

[ATOR]

But the single thing I can't achieve is to lose all those bass and midrange frequencies that clutter a mix

A lot of bass and midrange comes from the proximity effect from your mic.

Try blumlein recording your guitar. (Google if you don't know this technique)

The solution is not compression and definitely not pancaking the guitar, you'll lose all the life and sparkle. First get it right with playing and recording. If it doesn't sound like how you want it when you're playing it, change your playing. Then if you still need compression take the 1176, start with slowest attack, shortest release and drop the threshold until the guitar sits nicely in the mix.

When you use compression listen for what you lose: depth, dynamics, space, sparkle etc. Those are the most important things in getting a mix like the ones you named. Use little compression and then a little less

 

[Agent Cooper]

Hi guys,
thanks for all your input.
If I may say that, the guitar definitely sounds right when played acoustically, that's why I chose the Gibson Jumbo (with Maple back and sides) over a comparable Martin.
I guess I'll have to experiment even more with the position of the KM184, I always record separate tracks for both mics anyway.
Simplicity, yeah, that's what I tend to go for, too. But on these or similar recordings, the guitar is so much \"there\" and still is miles from taking anything away from the vocals. Not really natural, more like a very flattering caricature of the instrument.
With a decent singer I'm perfectly happy with the vocal sound, especially with a little Pultec and LA2. I can even get away with using very little reverb without the singers bugging me, if you know what I mean :wink: .
Would you guys use some reverb / ambience on the strummed acoustic ?
Questions, questions.
Thanks again, Cooper

 

[brian]

Regarding reverb, EMT 140 sounds really good to me on acoustic guitars. I would add a bit of that. Regarding compression, I usually use a 1176 but for stuff like solos or leads compressing alot with LA-2A sounds very natural.