Laid down tracks - great. Now overdubbing. Using ARM. Sound syncs as I overdub. But on playback audio is shifted/not in time? Why?

[AustinBuddy]

Hi: semi-newbie, using LUNA last year and loving it for sound and tracking live band.

Did some tunes and now doing overdubs (guitars) to existing tracks - not a lot of plug-ins, just Unison mic pre in and a 1073 preamp (printed).

Am correctly using ARM button to record -- and when I do the overdub, everything is in time/in sync.

But then when I do a playback of what I recorded, LUNA has shifted the time placement of the overdub versus the other prior recorded tracks. So t's not in sync with the other tracks (as it was when recorded, and important to the song feel).

This shouldn't be the case. And the answer shouldn't be "just manually shift the track over each time you overdub."

Am wondering if others have had this experience/frustration -- and if there is a cure/diagnosis for why it's happening?


My system is a 3 unit Apollo x8p, x8, and 8 (black). So there is technically lots of DSP - 16 DSP cores total across three units. Limited 64/ Ins/Outs in I/O with many channels deactivated including DSP pairs set to 2 or 4 (so no or few VST pairs), until final mixing.

I keep the Control Panel "System Info" window open as I record to make sure no Cores are way high in CPU use. Running latest LUNA on a Monterey Mac 12.7.1 OS on a older late 2013 but usually bulletproof Intel Mac 3.5 Ghz 6 core Intel Xeon E5 with 32 GB DDR3 Mac Pro Studio (Cylinder).

Any ideas guys? I will say it doesn't always happens when I overdub, sometimes it syncs correctly on a tracked song - but it does not randomly and enough that it is a barrier to working. Just wondering if there is a simple solution.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help to solve this.

I love the workflow in LUNA and keep learning as I go...

 

[UniversalAudio]

Hi: semi-newbie, using LUNA last year and loving it for sound and tracking live band.

Did some tunes and now doing overdubs (guitars) to existing tracks - not a lot of plug-ins, just Unison mic pre in and a 1073 preamp (printed).

Am correctly using ARM button to record -- and when I do the overdub, everything is in time/in sync.

But then when I do a playback of what I recorded, LUNA has shifted the time placement of the overdub versus the other prior recorded tracks. So t's not in sync with the other tracks (as it was when recorded, and important to the song feel).

This shouldn't be the case. And the answer shouldn't be "just manually shift the track over each time you overdub."

Am wondering if others have had this experience/frustration -- and if there is a cure/diagnosis for why it's happening?


My system is a 3 unit Apollo x8p, x8, and 8 (black). So there is technically lots of DSP - 16 DSP cores total across three units. Limited 64/ Ins/Outs in I/O with many channels deactivated including DSP pairs set to 2 or 4 (so no or few VST pairs), until final mixing.

I keep the Control Panel "System Info" window open as I record to make sure no Cores are way high in CPU use. Running latest LUNA on a Monterey Mac 12.7.1 OS on a older late 2013 but usually bulletproof Intel Mac 3.5 Ghz 6 core Intel Xeon E5 with 32 GB DDR3 Mac Pro Studio (Cylinder).

Any ideas guys? I will say it doesn't always happens when I overdub, sometimes it syncs correctly on a tracked song - but it does not randomly and enough that it is a barrier to working. Just wondering if there is a simple solution.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help to solve this.

I love the workflow in LUNA and keep learning as I go...

What's on the Main out? I suspect it's some high latency stuff.

 

[AustinBuddy]

What's on the Main out? I suspect it's some high latency stuff.

Hi Drew @UniversalAudio - Nice to meet you - and thank you for responding so quickly.

BTW We have a mutual friend Phil Conrad in Austria who has been a great guide to me learning LUNA stuff.

Master Buss on this track is: Neve summing, ATR102, SSL G Bus, BrainWorks Master deck.

So help me up the curve. Even with 3 Apollos and 16 cores, I guess what I am starting to learn is "No, you can't leave your unprinted plug-ins to make the already recorded tracks sound great in your headphones to help inspire you for the overdub process like a guitar solo -- you need to not only track but also do any overdubs with almost no plug-ins on?"

Is that correct, or is just Master Buss related?

If so, I am going to have to learn to turn on/off plugins across/on channels en masse because I'm always playing toward the final sound am mixing to as I go, not raw tracks.

I appreciate your help - let me know?

best,

Austin Buddy

 

[chrisso]

I haven't had this issue tracking in Luna. I defer to Drew on the technicalities as I'm a complete novice compared to him.
All I'll say is that I find the sound impact of summing and tape is subtle. So while I'm recording I rarely if ever have those plugs in use. I put them on when I'm mixing or exporting the tracks. I would be surprised if they are causing latency, but that's just a couple of things I wouldn't introduce at the tracking/overdub stage because they aren't going to change the sound in your cans that much.

 

[UniversalAudio]

Hi Drew @UniversalAudio - Nice to meet you - and thank you for responding so quickly.

BTW We have a mutual friend Phil Conrad in Austria who has been a great guide to me learning LUNA stuff.

Master Buss on this track is: Neve summing, ATR102, SSL G Bus, BrainWorks Master deck.

So help me up the curve. Even with 3 Apollos and 16 cores, I guess what I am starting to learn is "No, you can't leave your unprinted plug-ins to make the already recorded tracks sound great in your headphones to help inspire you for the overdub process like a guitar solo -- you need to not only track but also do any overdubs with almost no plug-ins on?"

Is that correct, or is just Master Buss related?

If so, I am going to have to learn to turn on/off plugins across/on channels en masse because I'm always playing toward the final sound am mixing to as I go, not raw tracks.

I appreciate your help - let me know?

best,

Austin Buddy

I'd try with the ATR bypassed. See what happens.

yes, you can absolutely leave already recorded tracks loaded with UAD plugs while overdubbing. So the entire 2nd half of your post doesn't apply.

 

[AlexR]

I'd try with the ATR bypassed. See what happens.

yes, you can absolutely leave already recorded tracks loaded with UAD plugs while overdubbing. So the entire 2nd half of your post doesn't apply.

Is the ATR time delay between the Sync, Repro head and input also modeled into the plugin? that could be the issue, since the ATR can also be used as a delay

 

[UniversalAudio]

Is the ATR time delay between the Sync, Repro head and input also modeled into the plugin? that could be the issue, since the ATR can also be used as a delay

ATR just has high latency overall. It's why it's on the list in the manual for plugs NOT to use in Console for tracking.

 

[AustinBuddy]

Sorry for the reply delay but THANK YOU for the advice.

Wednesday we will be overdubbing again and I will disable the Master Buss Plug-Ins including ATR2 and see fi that was the culprit -- hope so! I would love ot leave at least the SSL Buss on though...

I also enjoyed seeing Vance Powell talk about the 1073 Legacy plug-in, and maybe I'll do that switch instead of the full 1073. I print the real 1073 with no EQ when we recored the band live, then use the 1073 again for EQ...so the Legacy version may be just fine for that. I'll report back after we take the above advice. Gracias!