Latency between x16 and x8p

The Reference Mix

The Reference Mix

Member
My current set up is an X16 (A) and X8P (B). While setting up a larger drum session I have 142 ms delay on the X8P. The way I have external pre's in my patchbay has outputs normaled to the line inputs of both devices. My Kick in was on X8P line on 1 and Kick Out on X16 Line In 1 with 142ms lag on the X8P. I also had 2 snares with one on each interface with the same delay. Input delay compensation is off in console and no plug-ins are being used. Any thoughts or reasoning on this? @DrewMazurek @Matt Hepworth ?
 
The Reference Mix

The Reference Mix

Member
As a test, with input delay on there's around 4ms.
 
rodd

rodd

Hall of Fame Member
Are you asking why the latency is different between the 2, or are you asking why it’s 142ms on both? I don’t quite understand your question.
 
The Reference Mix

The Reference Mix

Member
rodd said:
Are you asking why the latency is different between the 2, or are you asking why it’s 142ms on both? I don’t quite understand your question.
Click to expand...
Im really asking the following based on the observation that two separate interfaces have different arrival times.

1. Is there a known behavior difference between the two models. I'd be really surprised if so but worth asking.
2. If not then is there a known issue or situation that would cause such a late arrival.
 
rodd

rodd

Hall of Fame Member
They should be the same, that’s been my experience anyway with my x8 and x8p.
 
S

sws1

Active Member
I (and many others) have found many times that when using multiple devices, even if clocked using the same clock, 2 signals can be mis-aligned. Even though they remain in sync for their duration (because of the same clock), they don't necessarily align. And so if you're going to use 2 devices, make sure related sounds use the same device. e.g., all drums on 1 device, and guitars on a different device.

I've had this problem with a mixed system (UA and others), as well as a homogeneous UA system.
 
JamesNorth

JamesNorth

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah I've got the X16, X8P and X4 in a chain and have no issue about different arrival (which is as expected as it's all synched on the Thunderbolt bus). I've made a lot of records on these units (and previous gens).

My external pres are also rigged in my patchbay to go into the X16 and I've done a lot of sessions where I've used external pres on a full drum kit and used extra or alternative mics also recording the kit (room/under snare etc etc) that are kind of optional and have never had phase or other issues with those tracks.

Different arrival absolutely will happen when using ADAT or other devices plugged into the UA units because they're using a different clock to sync with. But even then - it wouldn't be anywhere near 142ms.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing - recording with IDC off is fine when there are absolutely no plugins in the chain at all ... it only needs to be used when you are recording a source with multiple mics AND there are plugin chains that differ between the channels.

I wonder whether you've tried changing the order of them in the TB chain? Have you tried (temporarily) making the other unit the monitor unit?
 
The Reference Mix

The Reference Mix

Member
JamesNorth said:
Yeah I've got the X16, X8P and X4 in a chain and have no issue about different arrival (which is as expected as it's all synched on the Thunderbolt bus). I've made a lot of records on these units (and previous gens).

My external pres are also rigged in my patchbay to go into the X16 and I've done a lot of sessions where I've used external pres on a full drum kit and used extra or alternative mics also recording the kit (room/under snare etc etc) that are kind of optional and have never had phase or other issues with those tracks.

Different arrival absolutely will happen when using ADAT or other devices plugged into the UA units because they're using a different clock to sync with. But even then - it wouldn't be anywhere near 142ms.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing - recording with IDC off is fine when there are absolutely no plugins in the chain at all ... it only needs to be used when you are recording a source with multiple mics AND there are plugin chains that differ between the channels.
>> It's odd the with IDC engaged the time comes closer but I agree It shouldn't effect anything in this scenario.
I wonder whether you've tried changing the order of them in the TB chain? Have you tried (temporarily) making the other unit the monitor unit?
Click to expand...
I'll try reversing the order and report back. Also agree that there shouldn't be a need for IDC in this case but its odd that it brings the units closer together when engaged.
 
S

sws1

Active Member
JamesNorth said:
Yeah I've got the X16, X8P and X4 in a chain and have no issue about different arrival (which is as expected as it's all synched on the Thunderbolt bus). I've made a lot of records on these units (and previous gens).

My external pres are also rigged in my patchbay to go into the X16 and I've done a lot of sessions where I've used external pres on a full drum kit and used extra or alternative mics also recording the kit (room/under snare etc etc) that are kind of optional and have never had phase or other issues with those tracks.

Different arrival absolutely will happen when using ADAT or other devices plugged into the UA units because they're using a different clock to sync with. But even then - it wouldn't be anywhere near 142ms.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing - recording with IDC off is fine when there are absolutely no plugins in the chain at all ... it only needs to be used when you are recording a source with multiple mics AND there are plugin chains that differ between the channels.

I wonder whether you've tried changing the order of them in the TB chain? Have you tried (temporarily) making the other unit the monitor unit?
Click to expand...
The clock sync between devices is nothing more than a square wave that tells every device to sample at the same time. It's not like a SMPTE code which attempts to align samples.

If one device converts the audio just .1ms behind the other, or if there is the tiniest delay in the TB connection, it'll be off by 5 samples.
 
The Reference Mix

The Reference Mix

Member
UPDATE: I literally did nothing and ran this test this morning. Split a metronome off my phone into L/R, one channel into my X16 the other into the X8P. Now its (nearly) dead-nuts even...🧐🧐🧐 Screen Shot 2023-12-15 at 10.57.57 AM.png Screen Shot 2023-12-15 at 10.58.23 AM.png
 
Neotrope

Neotrope

Venerated Member
I used to use Big Ben master clock for stuff. But now, with TB3 chaining with the Apollos, there have been zero latency issues here. I have my Mac going to X16 --> silverface/TB3 card --> silverface/TB3 card.
 
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