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Logic 7: Multi Instr.,uad-1 On Aux

xist2005

Active Member
I'm starting to use my UAD-1 in Logic 7.01.
Let's figure this: one track with EXS24 (let's say a quantised piano), another one with Ultrabeat STEREO playing a simple pattern, and UAD compressor (1176 or LA2A for example).
PDC is ON in Logic's preferences>audio tab.
Well, I've always read that Logic's PDC works, at least on tracks (not on bus, not aux). Ok, but when I insert a UAD's plug it's clearly delayed.
So this is my first question: are you able to use UAD-1 plugs in simple track insert WITHOUT hearing any delay? And, if yes, how?

Second queston (for admins, I think it's related to the first one, so I hope it's not banned):
let's imagine the same situation, but this time Ultrabeat is put as MULTI instrument.
So i assign kick and snare (for i.e.) to different aux. Ok, everything's perfect.
Is it possible to assign UAD-1 plugs to these aux channels? And how use the delay comp plug in this case? I've searched on the web but I've only find instructions for songs using UAD-1 on the bus.
Thank you very much!
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
I'm starting to use my UAD-1 in Logic 7.01.
Let's figure this: one track with EXS24 (let's say a quantised piano), another one with Ultrabeat STEREO playing a simple pattern, and UAD compressor (1176 or LA2A for example).
PDC is ON in Logic's preferences>audio tab.
Well, I've always read that Logic's PDC works, at least on tracks (not on bus, not aux). Ok, but when I insert a UAD's plug it's clearly delayed.
So this is my first question: are you able to use UAD-1 plugs in simple track insert WITHOUT hearing any delay? And, if yes, how?
That's really all you should have to do in this case, is toggle the Use Plugin Delay Compensation setting. Try toggling it on/off a few times, or trash the Logic preferences in your home Library and re-apply the setting.

Second queston (for admins, I think it's related to the first one, so I hope it's not banned):
let's imagine the same situation, but this time Ultrabeat is put as MULTI instrument.
So i assign kick and snare (for i.e.) to different aux. Ok, everything's perfect.
Is it possible to assign UAD-1 plugs to these aux channels? And how use the delay comp plug in this case? I've searched on the web but I've only find instructions for songs using UAD-1 on the bus.
Yeah, actually it seems logic will disable the automatic delay comp on multi-channel instruments, so you would use delay comps on the aux tracks and the \"main\" instrument channel. So for example:

all those tracks would line up :)
 

xist2005

Active Member
About the first question:
an update to this issue...
I have tried to apply the UAD to other instruments (EXS, Imposcar) and the internal Logic automatic PDC works as expected (without trashing any pref, and of course without using the UAD's delay comp plug).
So, I can assume it's an Ultrabeat related problem.
Can anyone confirm?

Going back to the second question, I try to explain.
I have a track with Ultrabeat set as MULTI instument. I open a drum kit, I go the drum kick and assign it to 3-4. I do the same with the snare, sending it to 4-5. Now I use Logic's aux, let's say AUX 1 and AUX 2, and I set them to get the inputs from Ultrabeat 3-4 and 4-5, as said.
Until now, it's a normal situation in Logic, as you would agree. Everything works, and I can control kick and snare from the AUX 1 and 2 respectively. So I can internal EQ or do whatever (native plug) I want.
BUT, what do I have to do to use UAD-1 plugs on these AUX?
Let's say I want to compress the kick (then AUX1) for example...

As I said in this example, apart from this Ultrabeat track, let's imagine just another simple EXS24 track (without any plug, and which helps me to test the tempo).
I just hope that the Ultrabeat issue I'm noticing in the first case (as simple stereo instrument) does not bring consequences also in this second case (using it as multi)....

thanks for your help
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
Sorry I revised my post a few times and added a screenshot, probably while you were posting :) Check out the screen shot for using UAD-1s on the Aux tracks (actually when you use a multi instrument, automatic delay comp is shut off for that multi-instrument, which luckily makes it a little easier to deal with).

I'll check on ultrabeat and the plugin delay comp.
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
Hmm, Ultrabeat seems to be working fine as far as delay comp goes. Here's a screen shot of what I did, both are lining up prefectly (where they wouldn't be if delay comp wasn't working).

 

mersisblue

Active Member
UA james use the ultra beat in step sequencer mode

and tell me if you get the same results

please :D
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
Aaah. I forgot about the step sequencer.
After a quick check, this looks like the problem. I guess the step sequencer has no relation to the Delay Compensation engine and is not factored in. Arrg. Too bad there isn't a button that would take the step sequence from Ultrabeat and drop it onto the track in the arrange as a MIDI sequence. :-(
 

xist2005

Active Member
So was I right?
Ultrabeat cannot be used with UAD 1?
Shit, I was thinking of it as my main drum machine.
I really hope there's a way to fix it!
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
It looks that way *if* you use the step sequencer. If the ultrabeat is playing from a MIDI region in the arrange, it works properly with the UAD-1 and Logic's Delay Compensation. I'm going to dig around the manual and see if I can find something that could be a use-able workaround. I'm surprised there is no function to \"bounce\" the step sequence down to a MIDI region in the arrange, allowing the further deep editing of the MIDI you would be able to do if you sequenced it directly as MIDI instead of in the step sequencer.

really hope there's a way to fix it!
If there is, it would be on emagic/apple's end. It seems they didn't set it up so anything in the step sequencer would be run under the main sequencing engine (like their's the main sequencing engine, then Ultrabeat has it's own, and they are not completely linked).
 

mersisblue

Active Member
that is correct james

but you could manually
a - bounce the track

b - translate the step sequencer to midi notes by hand
 

UAJames

Universal Audio
UA Official
Right, that's what I would normally suggest, but a lot of the time people feel that's too much work :-(
I've always sequenced live (from a controller) or via the Matrix editor but I'll keep digging for some other workarounds and let you guys know if I find anything. I would also suggest emailing Emagic/Apple for what it's worth, letting them know that having the step sequence part of Ultrabeat syncable through Delay Compensation is an important feature.
 

F5D

Active Member
I didn't understand why apple included a drum machine with step sequencer in logic 7. Quite old fashioned. Use the EXS24 and matrix editor for drums. 1 EXS for every drum category, 1 for kick, 1 for clap, 1 for hihats, etc...
 

xist2005

Active Member
Well, this is not the right place, but even if I can understand these opinions, I have to say that I'm starting to like (and therefore use) Ultrabeat more and more. The interface was a bit difficult, but reading the manual I discovered many interesting features. And while not so flexible it's a very good companion for electronic stuff, it's fun to have many different patterns and change them with a key. I find this approach a bit more \"rock'n'roll\" than using our beloved matrix, if you get me ;)

Anyway, if James can bring this issue to Apple's attention, it would be really welcome.
I have discovered something more related to this issue, trying different settings, I'll let you know tomorrow...
 

mersisblue

Active Member
I have started at least 3 threads over on apple since the release of logic concerning this

the thing is the logic users \"mentality\" doesnt push features like this
 

xist2005

Active Member
well, mersiblue, sorry for not having seen your topics, but as said I just started using ultrabeat + Uad, and to me the most natural and \"professional\" need is to use it as a multi instrument ( I would do the same with another drums or percussion source). I think every pro musician/engineer should feel this same need...
probably many people still do not use ultrabeat... that could be the reason... I hope other multi, like BFD do not have the same problem dealing with UAD-1...
 

xist2005

Active Member
Something more on the issue:
this is about Ultrabeat as MULTI.
Here it an example with an EXS as multi + uad on Aux (working as James said) and an Ultrabeat multi + uad on Aux.



This is working, the strange thing (to me) is that (as u can see) the Ultrabeat tracks do not need the plug delay comp to stay \"in timing\".

BUT, this only works if I have ONE Uad plug on the Ultrabeat's aux. If I add other UAD plugs, you can notice the delay! Tried to add the plug delay comp but NO WAY!

Anyone...? 8)
 

mersisblue

Active Member
can you explain that again

I think you added the delay comp to out puts 1-2 on ultra beat ei the instrument track itself

try using ONLY aux channels and see if that helps

since putting a delay comp on the instrument track may

delay all outputs since it is the master output

did I understand correctly ?
 

xist2005

Active Member
you're surely right, I am so confused...
I'd just need some concrete examples of how to use the UAD on Aux, especially using more than one plug per aux...
I always find examples which talk about bus and I think I got it, but what about using aux?
I was trying with BFD Multi All....
 

mersisblue

Active Member
set ultra beat so no sound is coming out outputs 1-2

3-4 5-6 etc.. should be set for the correct sounds in ultrabeat

aux set to instrument out put 3-4

aux 2 set to instrument out put 5-6

put a pultec pro on aux one ( plus a uad delay comp )

put a pultec pro on aux 2 and an 1176

is that what you mean ?
 

xist2005

Active Member
Thanks mersiblue, I did test your example two times, with EXS and BFD to learn a bit.
It works (and I have tried also to add things, to understand better), but I have not a clear and rational concept of what I am doing. It's more a trial and error process...
 
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