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Looking For Clear 'Airy' Compression

Suntower

Established Member
Hi,

I've decided I -hate- the way my vocals (high baritone/low tenor) are coming out these days. It's a steady decline. I keep getting sucked more and more into what to -me- is the very -fat- compressed and dry sound which seems to pervade today's music.

Sadly, I'm the kinda guy that -needs- a lotta compression. Lotta voice. Lotta dynamics.

For several years I've been using LA-2A on my voice along with a variety of FET large condenser mics.

Ironically, I almost things were better back when I was simply using an SM-57.

I'm looking to get to a very -clear- and airy sound with no proximity effect and none of the 'roundness' of most of the vintage comps which seems like it puts the mic about 2mm in the listener's face.

Any suggestions on using UAD plugs for this application? I know I'm being vague, but ya gotta start somewhere.

Thanks in advance!

---JC
 

Wiz

Active Member
I am not being smart..

but the best way to get rid of proximity effect ..is during tracking.

Mic pattern ...OMNI vs Cardiod...use OMNI.

If you cant use OMNI, balance the distance from the mic to get the sound you want.

Mic pre's can have an effect here. In that with a better mic pre you can get further from the mic in cardiod.

Also, I use a FMR RNP and a FMR RNC.

Using that combo, in my reasonable sounding treated room, i can get good clean vocals, the RNC is very transperant...that gives me a great starting point, which i can then use COMPS in the DAW to achieve the sound I want.

Also, using a compressor that gives you control over the attack/release times as well as ratio and threshold will give you more control as well...

If you set up your compressor so that its release time is set to the \"Groove\" of the tune, you can control the \"hardness\" of the sound by adjusting the ratio control.

Set your compressor up like this and see how it works for you.

Fastest attack time, fastest release time, 20:1 ration, and reduce the threshold till its really compessing like no end.

Listen to the start of the sound, (it will be pumping like nobodies business, ignore that) adjust the attack time, till you get the start of the sound you want (say on a acoustic guitar, you might adjust the attack time to get rid of fingernail noise, or less or more pick on the strings)

now adjust the release time, till the sound grooves with the music, you will find a release time that really sits well with the groove.

Now concentrate on the \"hardness\" of the sound....adjust the ratio control till the sound is as hard or soft as you like.

Then adjust the treshold control until the compression isnt running so hard.

This method of setting compressors is fantastic and comes from a book i bought..called \"mixing with your mind\".

This way you think of a compressor as a tonal device, as well as dynamic range control.

Spend an hour on this..and you will never look back.


Wiz
 

sniper

Established Member
^ Terrific advice!
 
G

Guest

Guest
Maybe you should first take another good look at your vocal-chain.
Shit in = shit out 8)
No voice is alike as you already found out. So maybe the SM57 was your goto mic to begin with, but when you got sucked into more gearslutting, you've lost perspective of your objectives somehow. So go back to the startpoint, and begin your search to a good vocalsound to start with and then you should only have to apply slight compression to reach the ultimate sound you're looking for.

Good luck :lol:
 

Suntower

Established Member
I don't think anyone is being 'smart'. All good pieces of advice. Obviously if something 'works' one should use it. But memory is a funny thing. I don't remember exactly -why-, but I surely must've had some reason to stop using the SM-57 ---even though I can't remember it now.

And some gear-sluttedness is quite probable.


I guess I was looking for some thoughts on which of the UAD-1 products could be used for more 'transparent' compression.

I know everyone will suggest
---better vocal technique
---light compression

But it just ain't gonna happen beyond a certain point. Some guys just -need- a lot of gain riding.

But when I use LA-2A or 1176 on my voice I just hear them working way too much. It's not an obvious pumping action, but rather it sounds like they add a constant 'proximity effect' --- boosting the low mids in an unflattering way. Great for snares. Great for guitars. Great for bass. Not great for my voice.

So.... apart from general recording best practices, anyone suggest which UAD-1 comps can provide medium to heavy compression without -sounding- like they're providing medium to heavy compression? If so, suggested settings? If not, other plug-ins that -are- more appropriate?

THANKS!

---JC
 

antmaril

New Member
just an idea......I recently purchased a Shure SM7B-----It is a fabulous mic......think high-end SM57....that is the best description I can give. All the good qualities of an SM57, but much more fidelity....

Mat D.
 

Richard Hunter

Active Member
ditto on the sm7b. i have a pretty low voice with decent range.

what kind of LDC are you using???

when im in the high registers my BLUE Blueberry sounds pretty phenomenal, and it is known for having little proximity effect for a LDC. I can get 1-3 inches away from it and get good results...still, for a lot of things i prefer the sound of the SM7

as far as compression goes, maybe try the Fairchild, time constant 1-3, with moderate gain reduction. It supposedly diminishes bass a little as well.
 

imdrecordings

Venerated Member
Suntower said:
But when I use LA-2A or 1176 on my voice I just hear them working way too much. It's not an obvious pumping action, but rather it sounds like they add a constant 'proximity effect' --- boosting the low mids in an unflattering way. Great for snares. Great for guitars. Great for bass. Not great for my voice.



THANKS!

---JC
Try using both..
Ride the vocal on 4 with a slow release and mild attack with the 1176LN and have the LA2A catch all of the loud stuff... Try setting the La2a as a limiter and the 1176LN as a compressor riding the vocal and reining it it.
Or setup the 33609 the same way
-S-
 

Jeraz

Active Member
The biggest difference I've heard in my vocals was the right combo of mic + Preamp. I noticed a HUGE difference when I went to a premium preamp. I don't care what you do to a vocal afterward, if you want a great, clear, airy signal with a tight sonic footprint, then a great preamp can make the difference.

For me, it was profound enough, that I DUMPED my RNC (someone recommended above) because I didn't like what it did to my John Hardy Signal.

I don't have the best mixes in the world...I am still learning, but for example, the K2 + John Hardy sound on I Found Me received quite a few unsolicited compliments and queries regarding the vocal chain. Like you, I have a baritone voice, and I often make the mistake of not cutting enough low end out, because I like a warmer vocal...ah well...

Recently, I've been experimenting with the K-2 and the API preamps...I like what I have so far, but haven't \"printed\" anything yet.

Great pres are super worth the money, IMHO, when it comes to vocals/acoustic instruments, especially. What comes out of them takes EQ and compression better, and they make the most of great mics. I can't wait to pick up a Gefell or a nice ribbon (sold my 121...too \"pillowy\" for me) through the APIs....

Good luck, JC.
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
antmaril said:
just an idea......I recently purchased a Shure SM7B-----It is a fabulous mic......think high-end SM57....that is the best description I can give. All the good qualities of an SM57, but much more fidelity....
+1

I know JC's voice well & that mic would sound great on him. Its large grill forces you to stay far enough away to eliminate proximity effect, too.
 

Jeraz

Active Member
imdrecordings said:
Jeraz said:
(sold my 121...too "pillowy" for me)

Good luck, JC.
Mark, you've lost it. :wink:
Well, it's all about preference, isn't it? I am looking at other ribbons. I liked the 121s sound on "Secrets" on the strum...the darker sound there was perfect for what I was tryin' to do...but otherwise...nope. I bet the 122 is awesome. :wink: I am going to try the Peluso R14 and maybe an AEA.
 

Wiz

Active Member
You can also try chaining compressors, where you have more than one , and you have light settings on each.

In fact the best solution, well not the best, ...8)... volume levelling in your DAW of choice...

Manually go thru and adjust the volumes of words, phrases, parts of words if you have to...you will get \"perfect\" compression and no change of EQ.

Takes a while, but the more you do it the better you get at it...I can volume level a vocal track in about 10-15 minutes...if thats whats required.


Wiz
 

Jeraz

Active Member
The thing is, if you are using a mic and preamp that are not airy and transparent, you can have the most transparent airy compressor in the world (btw, I would NOT consider the colorful Fairchild or Neve or LA2A among these) and there is a really good chance that that airy, transparent compressor will bring out the qualities of whatever preamp+mic you are using. If there is a flaw at say, -40dB that you don't normally hear, it will be amplified, if there is the thing that you are looking for there, a nuance at -40dB that you just love and want to bring out, it will be accentuated by the compressor (generally speaking and of course, depending on settings).

There are so many variables that it is difficult to even have an intelligent discourse around this, without first making some assumptions, but to state the obvous toward making a point, we do know that the basic nature of compressors is to reduce the gain of peaks, thereby allowing us to increase the overall gain and thus raise softer sounds to more audible levels, right?

So, wouldn't the basic nature of compressors, in general, very often cause barely audible subtleties that are the product of interaction of things like noise floors, frequency response, bandwidth, slew rate and generation/handling of harmonics of mics and preamps , well, suddenly become not so subtle? In my experience, the answer is yes. Garbage in, accentuated garbage out. Gold in...well...depending on compressor and user, either Gold out, or something recognizable as once gold, but badly mishandled. LOL.

Therefore, (and I could be wrong) I'd think twice about spending dough on a great compressor to modify a sh1t (or even average) preamp/mic combo unless that sh1t preamp/mic combo was intentionally part of my preference/sound. First things, first. :D
 

jimmymio

Active Member
Richard Hunter said:
i have a pretty low voice with decent range.

when im in the high registers my BLUE Blueberry sounds pretty phenomenal, and it is known for having little proximity effect for a LDC. I can get 1-3 inches away from it and get good results
as far as compression goes, maybe try the Fairchild, time constant 1-3, with moderate gain reduction. It supposedly diminishes bass a little as well.
I too have a lower voice and find I have to EQ out a lot of 250-275 hz. That was till I too got the Blueberry and I use very little EQ now. Funny, i too love the Fairchild on my vox tracks.
JP
 

Mwah

Member
Wiz said:
now adjust the release time, till the sound grooves with the music, you will find a release time that really sits well with the groove.
This is a great idea I've heard from other sources as well.... just wondering if anybody makes a compressor plugin with tempo sync... 8)
 

BTLG

Established Member
I've always thought of the fairchild as being rather uncolored in comparison to the other UA plugs. From what I understand, that was the whole mystique about the fairchild in the first place, that you could squash the crap out of something without any compression artifacts.
 

Jeraz

Active Member
BTLG said:
I've always thought of the fairchild as being rather uncolored in comparison to the other UA plugs. From what I understand, that was the whole mystique about the fairchild in the first place, that you could squash the crap out of something without any compression artifacts.
*Fair* enough, no pun intended. :wink: It's true, you really can get some transparent sounds out of it. That's why, is the one on the Master Out for just about every acoustic song I do. :D

BTW, a little OT, did you see the cool video in the 'zine about use Lat-Vert? I've used it before, but still found the video interesting and helpful.
 
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