Looking For George Michael 'Father Figure' Vocal sound

[Suntower]

OK... You know the sound. It's such a staple 80's thing.

George Michael doing 'Father Figure' came on the radio and that seems to oooze the sound I'm after. That breathy, almost, but not quite, double tracked sound that is sooooo... 'airy'. Michael Jackson's 'Man In The Mirror' is another example.

General thoughts on how it's done?

---JC

 

[bröselmind]

It's done by an experienced performer.

 

[Suntower]

It's done by an experienced performer.

:roll:

[OLD FART RANT]
Man, there was a time.... not really more than a couple of years ago, when a fella could ask a question like this and actually get several replies, but also several -useful- replies.
[/OLD FART RANT]

Seems like all the forums I used to count on as good sources of info are, one by one, getting jaded and old.

Just like me.

Sayonara.

---JC

 

[Akis]

I have a feeling lately that this forum is getting more and more like cubase.net. Maybe I must be more strict and... I don't know. I mean, everybody can say what he/she wants, 'opinions are like assholes' etc. but the quality level of this forum is going down the hill...



broselmind, this is not an attack to you; however, I'm sure JC was looking for advice and most probably on the engineering part of it.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

I should go listen, but I would be willing to bet there might be some DimD on it... I will listen and post back.

 

[bröselmind]

I know it's not what you wanna hear.
But do you already have a singer that sings that way? And do you have any problems to record his performance?

 

[Arys Chien]

I know it's not what you wanna hear.
But do you already have a singer that sings that way? And do you have any problems to record his performance?

But it's not really the point HERE.

It's like when people asked about "the 80's snare sound", you won't tell him to get the right snare drum. Instead you tell him "give your snare a good gate reverb and start from there."

I can't answer this question myself because someone borrowed my George Michael CD and hasn't returned it for a long long time.... :?

 

[NEWRIGEL]

It's done by an experienced performer.

:roll:

[OLD FART RANT]
Man, there was a time.... not really more than a couple of years ago, when a fella could ask a question like this and actually get several replies, but also several -useful- replies.
[/OLD FART RANT]

Seems like all the forums I used to count on as good sources of info are, one by one, getting jaded and old.

Just like me.

Sayonara.

---JC

Well... it's actually true! Yes... there are ways to massage whats there on the track, but if the information is not there how can you produce it with a computer or any recording gear? Putting the cart before the horse seems to be the way things are done anymore... people rely on digital production instead of just honing their musical gifts or talents? to produce a great take, or record in the end. Man, I got to say that PERFORMANCE is really the key to a great record! But if you want to bring out the breathy sibilance of a vox track (if it's there to start with) is use frequency dependent compression... that way your only acting apon a certain group of frequencies and getting the desired result.... But I say the man is RIGHT by what he stated!

 

[NEWRIGEL]

[quote="bröselmind":11mp337z]I know it's not what you wanna hear.
But do you already have a singer that sings that way? And do you have any problems to record his performance?

But it's not really the point HERE.

It's like when people asked about "the 80's snare sound", you won't tell him to get the right snare drum. Instead you tell him "give your snare a good gate reverb and start from there."

I can't answer this question myself because someone borrowed my George Michael CD and hasn't returned it for a long long time.... :?[/quote:11mp337z] And again, the point is "an 80's snare sound"... don't you think the "SNARE DRUM" has something to do with that? I hope your not stating that a reverb is going to give you a great snare sound are you? IT'S THE SOURCE! Again... shit in... shit out!

 

[Akis]

For starters, none of us has heard Suntower's actual recorded performance (or the singer he's planning to record, probably himself), so it is logically wrong to assume it is either a good one for the sound he is after, so he's only missing the technical knowledge to record/mix it the way he describes, or that it's the actual performance/performer that it is to blame. He seems to imply that it's the first, though.

If it's about recording that's already done, an mp3 sample would help us help you, JC.

Please, people, stay on topic.

 

[quaznizi4]

You know, I've been spending alot of time trying to get a " signature sound " on vocals. It's tough.

At any rate, in my experience...it's not ONE thing that gets that sound. It usually starts with some esoteric preamp...one that strongly colors the sound of some esoteric tube mic. ( like a SONY C800 ...MAN....externally cooled...it sounds like heaven ) . Perhaps just a touch of limiting up front...only a touch.

In the 80s...that might have been recorded to analog tape first ...so it gets colored again there. Then its routed through some esoteric console that is insanely quiet and transparent.

Then comes a HECK of alot of compression. I know people have been saying that you get that upfront sound by slowing the attack and speeding up the release...but that's BS. The way I got close was to have a fast attack and a VERY fast release. Then compress it again at with the fastest attack you have at your disposal. Like using two 1176's back to back...or...my favorite...using an 1176 followed by an LA 2A.

Sit a high quality EQ in front of that chain.

De-Ess after. ( but if you're using one of those esoteric mics ....you may not need to de-ess much )

The one thing that I forgot was the engineer's ear...only experience tells you when to stop with the compression and eq...and when to keep going.

I'm sure you knew most of that stuff....but I just recently found that you CAN'T ( well atleast I can't ) ... get that sound 100% without having the things that actually contributed to that sound.

At the same time, you can get a really good vocal sound using inexpensive gear...and if your artist has budget...RENT QUALITY GEAR FOR THE SESSION.

Flames are welcome.


Quaz

OK... You know the sound. It's such a staple 80's thing.

George Michael doing 'Father Figure' came on the radio and that seems to oooze the sound I'm after. That breathy, almost, but not quite, double tracked sound that is sooooo... 'airy'. Michael Jackson's 'Man In The Mirror' is another example.

General thoughts on how it's done?

---JC

 

[BTLG]

Don't forget to factor in that that is how George Michael sounded in THAT room on THAT day singing THAT song.

I find it's a little silly to run around trying to recreate something you've heard for years. It's too easy to end up chasing your tail.

 

[Suntower]

Thanks for writing.

But I don't think it's even like -that-. It was in the spirit of 'how did Jaco get that bass sound on... x,y,z' or ... how did the Beatles get that vocal sound on 'Strawberry Fields'?

According to the original responder, 'Learn to play like Jaco!', 'Learn to sing like Lennon!'.

Rubbish.

In the two examples, I would say something like...

'Get a Fender Jazz bass, use the rear pickup, etc..'

'Try heavy compression and running your voice through a Leslie speaker.'

See the difference?

I'm not looking for someone who sings like George Michael. I'm looking for the processing which (to -me-) sounds very evident in many of those recordings: it's a very breathy, almost double-tracked sound. I hear this on many, many records from that era.

---JC

It's like when people asked about "the 80's snare sound", you won't tell him to get the right snare drum. Instead you tell him "give your snare a good gate reverb and start from there."

I can't answer this question myself because someone borrowed my George Michael CD and hasn't returned it for a long long time.... :?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Ok I finally listened to the GM song. There is medium delay, very digital sounding verb, and almost certainly a chorus dialed in fairly subtly. Well the chorus is not exaclt subtle on this is it?

I think the DimD would be an excellent starting point to get this (along with delay/verb) but you may need to filter the result with an eq (pre or post DimD, i dunno), and obviously you would want to use the DimD on a bus.

Man in the Mirror, however is a little different. I hear a lot less chorusy effect on the vocal where it is NOT doubled. And it is doubled frequently. There is also delay on this one, but much shorter, and there is a slightly warmer verb, but still something out of the 80s toolbox.

My favorite part of that song is the choir recording. So lively and all-around-you sounding. I seem to remember reading that Bruce Swedien used a blumlien setup on the choir with the choir in a circle around the two mics. Seems to have worked!

And yes... a LOT of the sound of the George Michael vocal has to do with the performance and mic/pre... But if you were to sing a little breathily and work to get a sweet lift on the highs without boosting too much 5k along with a very subtle chorus, and less subtle delay and verb I bet you can get in the ballpark.

But knowing your baritone voice... if you want to actually want to sing LIKE GM you are gonna need to get a clothespin and place it down on your... well... I don't really think you want to sound like HIM, just produce a similar effect on the vox?

cAPS

 

[Suntower]

Thanks for the feedback.

After my last divorce, my gonads are sufficiently compressed, -thank you- very much. :mrgreen:

It's the breathiness is what I was after and you've given me some things to try.

Another timbre that comes to mind are a lot of the Roland D50 patches.

What struck me about this song---and the whole genre, is that it's almost like people were trying to sound like Marilyn Monroe.

'Happy <birthday> Mr. <President>'

Best,

---JC

Ok I finally listened to the GM song. There is medium delay, very digital sounding verb, and almost certainly a chorus dialed in fairly subtly. Well the chorus is not exaclt subtle on this is it?

I think the DimD would be an excellent starting point to get this (along with delay/verb) but you may need to filter the result with an eq (pre or post DimD, i dunno), and obviously you would want to use the DimD on a bus.

Man in the Mirror, however is a little different. I hear a lot less chorusy effect on the vocal where it is NOT doubled. And it is doubled frequently. There is also delay on this one, but much shorter, and there is a slightly warmer verb, but still something out of the 80s toolbox.

My favorite part of that song is the choir recording. So lively and all-around-you sounding. I seem to remember reading that Bruce Swedien used a blumlien setup on the choir with the choir in a circle around the two mics. Seems to have worked!

And yes... a LOT of the sound of the George Michael vocal has to do with the performance and mic/pre... But if you were to sing a little breathily and work to get a sweet lift on the highs without boosting too much 5k along with a very subtle chorus, and less subtle delay and verb I bet you can get in the ballpark.

But knowing your baritone voice... if you want to actually want to sing LIKE GM you are gonna need to get a clothespin and place it down on your... well... I don't really think you want to sound like HIM, just produce a similar effect on the vox?

cAPS

 

[NEWRIGEL]

Thanks for writing.

But I don't think it's even like -that-. It was in the spirit of 'how did Jaco get that bass sound on... x,y,z' or ... how did the Beatles get that vocal sound on 'Strawberry Fields'?

According to the original responder, 'Learn to play like Jaco!', 'Learn to sing like Lennon!'.

Rubbish.

In the two examples, I would say something like...

'Get a Fender Jazz bass, use the rear pickup, etc..'

'Try heavy compression and running your voice through a Leslie speaker.'

See the difference?

I'm not looking for someone who sings like George Michael. I'm looking for the processing which (to -me-) sounds very evident in many of those recordings: it's a very breathy, almost double-tracked sound. I hear this on many, many records from that era.

---JC

It's like when people asked about "the 80's snare sound", you won't tell him to get the right snare drum. Instead you tell him "give your snare a good gate reverb and start from there."

I can't answer this question myself because someone borrowed my George Michael CD and hasn't returned it for a long long time.... :?

But it seems as though you would bring a broad band noise up (if there's no information to begin with) thats the only reason to try and get as much "breathyness" information into the take as possible then use frequency dependent compression to accentuate those frequencies. I've found also that "impedence" can add a different upper harmonic content in the source material also so it's time to experiment hehe...

 

[Sparky2]

..yeah..that was gonna be my thought...copy the vocal track to another track and experiment using multi-band compression to focus in on the breathy frequencies. Blend in as needed...and seeing as \"lush\" is what comes to my mind when I recall this song in my minds ear, a good lexicon verb, chorus or delay would probably be what the doctor prescribes...LXP-1 one baby!! :lol:

-Curt

 

[T-Dogg]

If you want to authentically recreate the tone and vibe of the vocals in \"Father Figure\", the natural ambience of the room will become very important. If I recall correctly, that song was tracked in a reststop bathroom off the interstate in LA, so... :lol: ... so, uh... :lol: ...you may want to consider tracking on location, if ya know what I mean...

If I remember correctly, the vocals on that horrible Eddie Murphy album shared a similar ambient quality as well... hmmmmm...

Sorry, but somebody had to do it! Kudos to everyone else for not being immature enough to beat me to the punch!

 

[Sparky2]

:lol: :lol: LMFAO!!!!!! Holy crap, that was a good zinger T-Dogg!

 

[Suntower]

Actually, that's a really good observation. As much as I hate to admit it, Eddie's vocal on 'Party All The Time' pretty much is the sound I'm after.

(nooooooo... not his vocal tone).

---JC

:lol: :lol: LMFAO!!!!!! Holy crap, that was a good zinger T-Dogg!