Luna Latency Issues (Help!)

D

def_engineer

Member
I've got a session tomorrow and I dont want to revert to Pro Tools so lets try and solve the issues within Luna.

So heres my signal path:

Microphone > Mixer > MOTU 16a (Thunderbolt) > Mac Mini M1 > Pro Tools
In Pro Tools with no plugins we have imperceptable latency (And I have a very aware Producer)
Even if I add an SSL Plugin on every single channel we still have impercepatble latency.

So, Same Signal Path
Microphone > Mixer > MOTU 16a (Thunderbolt) > Mac Mini M1 > Luna
Channel Strip has API Vision & Studer forwarding to a Bus with API Summing, API 2500 and the ATR Master tape.

Now there are about 25 tracks and about 10-15 busses all with the similar plugin layout.
Disabling all plugins means that the latency immediately dissapears and the more I scale the tape plugins back the lower the latency APPEARS to become.

So my questions are two fold.
1 - Are these plugins introducing latency? All the GTR Scratch tracks I recorded today was about 2500 samples out of place
2 - If so HOW do I view how much latency they are introducing? (In Pro tools its at the bottom of each channel strip / track in the mixer window)

If I could see how much latency each channel is causing or how much the overall session is being affected then I can make informed decisions but I cant find the latency or any latency compensation

As you can see from the attached picture once I've finished recording the guitar is infront of the click (Or very far behind I'm not 100% sure!)
 

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D

def_engineer

Member
Well that is a swift kick in the balls!

I incorrectly made the assumption that Lunas Integrations for Tape & Console would be a zero latency addition or atleast a latency that it could compensate for. It looks like the tape certainly adds some latency and I think both the API Vision Channel strip and the API 2500s (And maybe even the API Summing) is adding latency aswell

Which would mean effectively none of these integrations are useful until the mixing phase?

Has anyone else had this experience / Drew can you confirm this to be the case.

Also @Joe Porto Do you know anywhere within the software that will show the delay or delay compensation in anyway? I'm searching the manual but not finding it.
 
UniversalAudio

UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
def_engineer said:
Well that is a swift kick in the balls!

I incorrectly made the assumption that Lunas Integrations for Tape & Console would be a zero latency addition or atleast a latency that it could compensate for. It looks like the tape certainly adds some latency and I think both the API Vision Channel strip and the API 2500s (And maybe even the API Summing) is adding latency aswell

Which would mean effectively none of these integrations are useful until the mixing phase?

Has anyone else had this experience / Drew can you confirm this to be the case.

Also @Joe Porto Do you know anywhere within the software that will show the delay or delay compensation in anyway? I'm searching the manual but not finding it.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, ATR is a mix thing for sure.

There are a few others with extra latency, they're listed in the manual.
 
J

Joe Porto

Hall of Fame Member
def_engineer said:
I incorrectly made the assumption that Lunas Integrations for Tape & Console would be a zero latency addition or atleast a latency that it could compensate for. It looks like the tape certainly adds some latency and I think both the API Vision Channel strip and the API 2500s (And maybe even the API Summing) is adding latency aswell

Which would mean effectively none of these integrations are useful until the mixing phase?

Has anyone else had this experience / Drew can you confirm this to be the case.

Also @Joe Porto Do you know anywhere within the software that will show the delay or delay compensation in anyway? I'm searching the manual but not finding it.
Click to expand...
Even when using Apollo DSP for monitoring, tape slots are bypassed and you are limited to two ARMed AUX channels (summing). API vision runs on DSP for monitoring and native for playback.

There is no latency reporting in Luna.
 
D

def_engineer

Member
So just to confirm whilst I've got your ear.

Whilst tracking:
Dont use tape emulation Studer or ATR (both will introduce delays)
Dont use API Vision in the console section or The API 2500's as they appear to introduce a delay of 55ms?

Keep the channel strip totally clean or use Slate/SSL/Waves plugins I know have zero latency?

Also... How do I know if a plugin is introducing latency within Luna?
At the moment I can add plugins and have no idea if they're impacting the audio until I click go and the client tells me.
I suspect there is a way I just cant find it in the manual.
 
D

def_engineer

Member
Joe Porto said:
Even when using Apollo DSP for monitoring, tape slots are bypassed and you are limited to two ARMed AUX channels (summing). API vision runs on DSP for monitoring and native for playback.

There is no latency reporting in Luna.
Click to expand...
Ah... Thank you.

Latency reporting is absolutely a feature the Interface needs. Especially in a tracking scenario!
I'll feature request that within the software.

Thank you for the answers!
 
UniversalAudio

UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
def_engineer said:
I think I need to buy an Apollo....
Wish I'd bought one Apollo instead of these two Motus!
Click to expand...
MOTU makes quality gear for sure!!!

But if you like LUNA, LUNA+ Apollo is a pretty f'ing great setup if I do say so myself.

This is coming from a lifelong PT TDM DSP rig user from way back that also has crap loads of experience on LFACs and 2".
 
D

def_engineer

Member
UniversalAudio said:
MOTU makes quality gear for sure!!!

But if you like LUNA, LUNA+ Apollo is a pretty f'ing great setup if I do say so myself.

This is coming from a lifelong PT TDM DSP rig user from way back that also has crap loads of experience on LFACs and 2".
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we may be a smaller business still obtaining clients at the start of our careers but we realised very quickly that we utilise gear at a professional level to the point where "Enough" for most people isn't good enough for us.

The M1 immediately because an issue with CPU usage as it handles all of the plugins, and I dont use alot but the sessions are large so a studio mac is absolutely required. And we knew that we needed to alliviate some stress off the CPU so originally our plans were Avid 192's then HDX and now its looking like its apollo.

These are all currently dreams as our ability / skillsets far outweigh our budget but I as soon as its possible I will be moving to Apollos, Could be months, could be years but I'll ge there!

I've watched a good number of your videos Drew and you seem like someone with an incredible wealth of experience and knowledge so I appriciate you taking the time to respond.
 
UniversalAudio

UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
def_engineer said:
I've watched a good number of your videos Drew and you seem like someone with an incredible wealth of experience and knowledge so I appriciate you taking the time to respond.
Click to expand...
It's my pleasure.

Don't hesitate to tag me if you need help.
 
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