Luna load times

benj_sp

Venerated Member
Hey UAD forum people,

I'm trying Luna and have had a frustrating time with loading it - I thought it was just hanging, but it turns out I simply wasn't giving it enough time to load... (!)

On my M1Pro MBP running Sonoma, here are typical load times I see from my DAWs:
Logic - 10 seconds
Live - 12 seconds
Reaper - 4 seconds
Luna - 6 minutes and 45 seconds

So what's up here?

Thanks!
 

UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
Hey UAD forum people,

I'm trying Luna and have had a frustrating time with loading it - I thought it was just hanging, but it turns out I simply wasn't giving it enough time to load... (!)

On my M1Pro MBP running Sonoma, here are typical load times I see from my DAWs:
Logic - 10 seconds
Live - 12 seconds
Reaper - 4 seconds
Luna - 6 minutes and 45 seconds

So what's up here?

Thanks!
Not what I see here and certainly not normal.

Have you done an uninstall/delete prefs/reinstall?
 

benj_sp

Venerated Member
Thanks - I have uninstalled, reinstalled, rebooted etc but not with a prefs deletion - I'll give that a shot...

Edit: No change in behaviour with a reinstall and a prefs deletion (including deleting the whole Universal Audio prefs folder). The splash screen appears, then after about 30 seconds the mouse cursor beachballs for another 6+ minutes, then it'll finally load.

I was hoping to at least use Luna as a mastering processor (as I can then use the ATR natively to print mixes through), but as it is, it's not really that useable... if anyone else has any suggestions, I'll happily give them a shot, as otherwise, it looks like it's going to be somewhat unworkable.
 
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Joe Porto

Hall of Fame Member
Luna boots here (M2 Max, Sonoma 14.3.1) in 5.18 seconds, and the right side internet panel takes an additional 3.48 seconds to load.

The only time I'd seen lagging boot times is when UAConnect had trouble logging into my account, but hasn't been an issue since putting licenses on an USB iLok and choosing USB iLok as default license location in Luna.

If you are using iLok cloud, try opening UAConnect first to see if there is a connection issue there. Generally, if your username appears in the upper right, connection has been established and should not cause a significant delay for LUNA to boot.

Also, make sure you have latest iLok Manager installed and if using iLok Cloud, try closing and opening your cloud session.
 

benj_sp

Venerated Member
The only time I'd seen lagging boot times is when UAConnect had trouble logging into my account, but hasn't been an issue since putting licenses on an USB iLok and choosing USB iLok as default license location in Luna.
Thanks for the suggestions. I don't have any issues with UA Connect generally or my UADx licenses, but yes, they are on the Cloud apart from a couple of the freebies which are machine auth'd.

If you are using iLok cloud, try opening UAConnect first to see if there is a connection issue there.
I do have it open, and all my iLok Cloud licenses are working fine. If I disable UA Connect, then Luna of course claims it can't find UA Connect for the license, but as long as UA Connect is installed, it sees the license just fine. It seems the beachballing happens after the license check.

Also, make sure you have latest iLok Manager installed and if using iLok Cloud, try closing and opening your cloud session.
I do, but I think this is unrelated to iLok or the Cloud session, as I have zero issues with any of my Cloud licenses ever. Restarting my cloud session had no affect on this behaviour or the beachballing/load times...
 

Joe Porto

Hall of Fame Member

benj_sp

Venerated Member
Yep, I already did the whole uninstall, remove prefs, reinstall dance to no effect.

I removed all the AU plugins, and all the VST/VST3 plugins (which I guess Luna scans as well), and Luna still beachballs on loading, but now it only takes two and a half minutes before I get to the startup window...

After a reboot (to clear any persistent plugin caching with removed plugins etc), Luna now loads as I'd expect (in about 5 seconds). So I'll put the plugins back (bit by bit) and see whether it stays happy, or gets sad again...
 
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UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
Yep, I already did the whole uninstall, remove prefs, reinstall dance to no effect.

I removed all the AU plugins, and all the VST/VST3 plugins (which I guess Luna scans as well), and Luna still beachballs on loading, but now it only takes two and a half minutes before I get to the startup window...
Be sure to get a ticket open with Support, they'll have things for you to try. Go to help.uaudio.com, click on the blue Support bot and type “create ticket”
 

benj_sp

Venerated Member
It's OK, I only resort to bothering other people (ie, Support) as a last resort, I'd prefer to fix it myself where I can...

It looks to be a third-party plugin issue so I'm doing the identify-rogue-plugin dance (haven't had to do this for many years!)

It's a bit painful to identify culprits because of (presumably) caching, you can't just move an AU plugin out of the components folder to stop Luna trying to load it... If you move a bunch of plugins in and Luna chokes now (so likely at leat one plugin in that batch is causing a problem), because you can move them *all* back out, so there's no plugin left, and Luna will still choke trying to load them...

(You can verify this by removing all plugins, running Luna, and you'll still have your third-party plugins available to be loaded displayed in Luna)

Which when you're copying in batches of plugins at a time, and you have 500 or so to do, it's... painful...
 
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It's OK, I only resort to bothering other people (ie, Support) as a last resort, I'd prefer to fix it myself where I can...

It looks to be a third-party plugin issue so I'm doing the identify-rogue-plugin dance (haven't had to do this for many years!)

It's a bit painful to identify culprits because of (presumably) caching, you can't just move an AU plugin out of the components folder to stop Luna trying to load it... If you move a bunch of plugins in and Luna chokes now (so likely at leat one plugin in that batch is causing a problem), because you can move them *all* back out, so there's no plugin left, and Luna will still choke trying to load them...

(You can verify this by removing all plugins, running Luna, and you'll still have your third-party plugins available to be loaded displayed in Luna)

Which when you're copying in batches of plugins at a time, and you have 500 or so to do, it's... painful...
Hello @benj_sp, yes, according to my experience, you always have to restart the computer when you add the AUs that you removed from the "components" folder to know which one is "bad"
 

benj_sp

Venerated Member
according to my experience, you always have to restart the computer when you add the AUs that you removed from the "components" folder to know which one is "bad"
Actually, restarting the plugin registrar process (which is traditionally the way to update the plugin list without doing a full reboot, and I have a nice terminal alias for this as it's so useful) *does* work, in just takes 10 or 20 seconds for the system to update the changes. So that makes it a lot easier to identify problem plugins.

I'm finding though that I think this slow loading is a result of how Luna is handling plugins generally, rather than an actual problem with any given third-party plugins (at least on my system).

For example, the first plugin I found that is slow enough to cause beachballs on Luna load is Zebra 2, which seems to be scanning it's presets folders like in a first-time install, and thus taking a lot of time (about twenty seconds). This indicates that Luna is in fact initialising the plugin when loading, whereas Logic only does this if it finds a new plugin at which point it validates it (initialises it and stores the validation results in the cache). As a result, loading it in Logic takes a split second to see Zebra 2 and make it available on loading the DAW, whereas Luna initialises it in full every time. (Either that, or *Luna* is scanning the available AU presets maybe, of which I have a lot.) And if Luna is initialising *all* plugins in a similar way, it's no wonder the loading process is taking forever (and it's not as if I have a huge selection of plugins - it's a decent amount, around ~500, but other people have way more.) Even just loading Zebra2 properly in a different host only takes a few seconds to load, because it's not doing a preset scan.

Maybe Luna is supposed to only initialise plugins like this the first time, and store those results in a cache or preference file somewhere, and this is not working here, so the plugins are always being initialised - I don't know enough about Luna's plugin handling, unlike things I'm very familiar with like Logic.

Or it's scanning the AU preset folders per plugin on load, which would be slow if that's the case, as I have a lot of these as I save out individual plugin presets as AUpreset files to use in Logic's preset browser.

Anyway, all my plugins work fine, but if they're being initialised from scratch each time, each one that takes some time to init is going to add to the app loading time, unlike my other DAWs, which just build a full plugin list in a second and are ready to go. So all my plugins are going back, and I guess I'll just have to only load Luna very rarely, when I absolutely want to use it badly enough...
 
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benj_sp

Venerated Member
Ok confirmed - the issue is happening because Luna is scanning the AU preset directories for each plugin (presumably to build it's internal preset browser) on app startup.

If I move all my ~/Library/Audio/Presets/ folders out of there, Luna loads in seconds. If I put them back - we're back to 7 minute load times.

While I have a lot of preset files here (over half a million), it shouldn't take a huge amount of time to directory scan them from the Mac's SSD, so this looks like an implementation issue* to me. (Doing a recursive directory listing in Terminal over that folder takes ~15 seconds.)

So 7 minute load times it is, then...:(

(* Logic in comparison only scans a single preset directory for the plugin you load and focus on, so it's doing the minimum amount of work necessary to make these available in it's preset browser.)
 
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Joe Porto

Hall of Fame Member
Ok confirmed - the issue is happening because Luna is scanning the AU preset directories for each plugin (presumably to build it's internal preset browser) on app startup.

If I move all my ~/Library/Audio/Presets/ folders out of there, Luna loads in seconds. If I put them back - we're back to 7 minute load times.

While I have a lot of preset files here (over half a million), it shouldn't take a huge amount of time to directory scan them from the Mac's SSD, so this looks like an implementation issue* to me. (Doing a recursive directory listing in Terminal over that folder takes ~15 seconds.)

So 7 minute load times it is, then...:(

(* Logic in comparison only scans a single preset directory for the plugin you load and focus on, so it's doing the minimum amount of work necessary to make these available in it's preset browser.)
That still doesn't seem normal. I have a ton of plugins and VIs...the entire Arturia V collection, the entire IK studio suite, tons of PI, Eventide, Soundtoys etc. Doesn't effect load time unless a scan is required after plugin updates.

Could it be a permission thing? Like the plugin registry file isn't being saved after the scan?
 

benj_sp

Venerated Member
That still doesn't seem normal. I have a ton of plugins and VIs...the entire Arturia V collection, the entire IK studio suite, tons of PI, Eventide, Soundtoys etc. Doesn't effect load time unless a scan is required after plugin updates.
It's not the plugins themselves. It's the AUpreset files - for every plugin Luna finds, it scans it's preset directory for it's own internal browser. The exact process it does, or how it manages it's internal data structures of presets to display them in the preset browser is not known to me. it does appear to be pretty slow, and it seems to do it on every start of the app.

You won't see the issue, because you likely don't have very many aupreset files - do a Get Info on the path I list above - how many items does your system report are in that folder? A few thousand, maybe? That amount doesn't take very long to process, so you won't notice it.

Could it be a permission thing? Like the plugin registry file isn't being saved after the scan?
Again - it's not the plugins themselves. With no AUpreset files, the Luna load time is quick as expected, even with hundreds of plugins. Where it's slow is the scanning of the preset files - of which, I have a lot - which isn't a problem in Logic (which is what I make them for), but seems to be a problem for Luna.
 
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klasaine

Hall of Fame Member
I have a fair amount of 3rd party AUs and I'm still on an Intel machine. Luna takes maybe a minute to load.
 

mrgkeys

Active Member
pluginfo says 1001 AU plugins... Luna takes about 2 min to start up and every project takes at least 60 seconds or more to load. Bigger projects though, 50-80 tracks, but usually only 1 VI or zero. Not a lot of plugins but 0-3 in each track-ish. I've done the delete and reinstall a couple times with no difference in startup time. All plugins and UA stuff on an iLock local. I just go get a beverage because I remember how long rewind used to take :)
 

chrisso

Venerated Member
Luna takes about 30 seconds to load on my computer.
I probably have about 50 AU plug-ins. I don't typically start a session with multiple plug-ins already instantiated.
Even songs I am working on (with recorded audio and plug-ins instantiated) don't take more than a minute load, usually less.
When I buy a new plug-in, Luna generally scans it and copies the presets and any other data. After that Luna never scans anything again.
There is something unusual about your set up or system.
 

benj_sp

Venerated Member
When I buy a new plug-in, Luna generally scans it and copies the presets and any other data. After that Luna never scans anything again.
Which presets does it copy, and where does it put them, specifically? I'd like to verify and investigate this behaviour...

There is something unusual about your set up or system.
Like I say, it's because Luna is scanning the AU presets folder for every plugin on every startup, and what's "unusual" on my system as already mentioned is that I have a lot of preset data, and Luna doesn't seem to handle this well, unlike Logic or Live, which also read the default macOS AU presets folders. If I move the preset files out of there, Luna loads quickly/normally (in about 6 seconds).
 

chrisso

Venerated Member
Like I say, it's because Luna is scanning the AU presets folder for every plugin on every startup, and what's "unusual" on my system as already mentioned is that I have a lot of preset data, and Luna doesn't seem to handle this well, unlike Logic or Live,
It's not a Luna issue. I have used Ableton Live in the same week as I've used Luna. The only time any of my DAWs scan the presets is when I buy a new plug-in. After I buy a new plug-in (especially third party) any DAW (PT, Live or Luna) takes a while to load as it recognises a new plug-in, scans it and saves it. The next time I launch my DAW it just loads straight away (maybe 30 seconds).
I couldn't tell you off hand where my presets are stored. I've never gone into it and changed anything.
I bought my Mac, I installed Luna, it scanned my plug-ins once, I got on with my work.
For some reason Luna is not finding your presets on launch and needs to find them, then rescan them.
 
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