LUNA Signal Flow: Where Do (Console Ext, Tape, Inserts, Sends, Virtual IO) Enter and Exit the Signal Chain?

Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
I'm still not confident if I understand LUNA's signal flow ...

Where Do (Console Ext, Tape, Inserts, Sends, Virtual IO) Enter and Exit the Signal Chain? Is there a LUNA signal flow chain diagram?

When I want to Monitor my signal modifications (using CStrip for example) prior to or during Capture, it appears I have to place the CS (LUNA Ext) in the Console window in order to monitor and print the modified signal. When I Insert a CS, [it] seems to only affect the signal during Playback. Am I correct? Is this always the case or specific switches must be made?

Another concept I struggle with at times ... is the relationship between Console and LUNA, especially in relation to Virtual I/O.

In LUNA Settings, the I/O Matrix appear to be the same as used in Console's I/O Matrix? Some of the Setting's panels are slightly different.

Recording virtual instruments in audio can be trick at first. Recording the MIDI Notes?

If I had a LUNA signal flow diagram, I may could answer my questions with some certainty, however since I'm kinda new to LUNA ... I confuse myself at times. IMHO, knowing the signal flow chain is key to the magic.

Thanks for your help!
 
klasaine

klasaine

Hall of Fame Member
You don't need to use Console when you're using Luna.
 
rjjuly

rjjuly

Moderator
Moderator
Here is an exerpt from the LUNA FAQ I wrote a couple years back:
======
So UA has brought together the two disparate signal paths - the input (record) path of the Apollo, and the track (playback) path of the traditional DAW, and put it into the single LUNA single channel strip.

It lays out like this:

INPUT section (Apollo)
- input controls [record path] (mic/ line, phase, gain, hi pass, etc...)
- Unison [record path]
- Record FX [record path]

TAPE section (native extension)
emulates the point between recording and playback of the audio on magnetic tape.

INSERTS section 8x (Satellite DSP, or Apollo, if necessary)
DSP based effects for mixing, like what you would put across the inserts of a console track on playback from tape.

SENDS section 8x (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Essentially this ( and the OUTPUT section) embodies what LUNA was designed to do - natively emulate the routing and summing of a classic console to buss outputs which can then be assigned internally or sent to Apollo outputs. This is the piece that really stitches the DAW functionality to the Apollo's, for outbound audio. Also why the summing has to be an extension, and can't be a UAD plugin - it has to run natively.

CUES section (Apollo and LUNA native)
This is hybrid, making transparent the coordination of a DAWs cues and the cues of the Apollo's real-time monitoring.

OUTPUT section (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Routing to any busses or Stereo Bus. These busses or Stereo bus would then be assigned to Apollo outputs.
========

It's important to remember that Luna incorporates the console functionality - there is no requirement to even open console - the console functionality is available from the 'input' section of the channel strip.

A.R.M. (acelerated realtime monitoring) is the core of how the Apollo as an input consloe is plumbed into LUNA. The help document for that functionality is here:

- Richard

P.S. yes, a signal path diagram would be nice!
 
Last edited:
UniversalAudio

UniversalAudio

Official UA Representative
Grievous Angel said:
I'm still not confident if I understand LUNA's signal flow ...

Where Do (Console Ext, Tape, Inserts, Sends, Virtual IO) Enter and Exit the Signal Chain? Is there a LUNA signal flow chain diagram?

When I want to Monitor my signal modifications (using CStrip for example) prior to or during Capture, it appears I have to place the CS (LUNA Ext) in the Console window in order to monitor and print the modified signal. When I Insert a CS, [it] seems to only affect the signal during Playback. Am I correct? Is this always the case or specific switches must be made?

Another concept I struggle with at times ... is the relationship between Console and LUNA, especially in relation to Virtual I/O.

In LUNA Settings, the I/O Matrix appear to be the same as used in Console's I/O Matrix? Some of the Setting's panels are slightly different.

Recording virtual instruments in audio can be trick at first. Recording the MIDI Notes?

If I had a LUNA signal flow diagram, I may could answer my questions with some certainty, however since I'm kinda new to LUNA ... I confuse myself at times. IMHO, knowing the signal flow chain is key to the magic.

Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
1. ignore Console. LUNA uses as needed in the background, you do not even need to have it launched. Console is just a GUI controlling the UA Mixer Engine.
2. Inside LUNA, anything in the Rec FX section is "pre-tape" and committed. Anything after including Tape and Utility Row and all mixer inserts are just previewing.

That's basically it.
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
UniversalAudio said:
1. ignore Console. LUNA uses as needed in the background, you do not even need to have it launched. Console is just a GUI controlling the UA Mixer Engine.
2. Inside LUNA, anything in the Rec FX section is "pre-tape" and committed. Anything after including Tape and Utility Row and all mixer inserts are just previewing.

That's basically it.
Click to expand...
THANKS. That helps, at least from a Newbie perspective.

From a Mac Sonoma 14.x view point ... How do most handle listening to music, i.e., Apple Music, USB Stick, CD, etc?

Example: Unless I am missing a 'Trick', assigning Mac's Audio MIDI Setup Output to UAudio TB of course allows music listening (depending on where your Speaker Monitors are attached). If I open LUNA (with Apple Music playing), interrupting Apple Music's signal flow can be challenging at a minimum. How most handle that scenario?

In an analog world, you would several ways to easily control the music source, i.e., patchbays to AUX Inputs, etc. With that in mine ... how best to do the same thing in LUNA (or Console if necessary)?

I currently am using my RME ADI-2 Pro FS (still among the better AD/DA) as the Output Device (Mac Audio MIDI Setup) however my Studio Monitors are NOT connected to ADI-2 DA Outputs . . . the Studio Monitors are connected to Apollo X DA Monitor Out! Using ADI-2 ADAT S/MUX Out as an ADAT Input to the Apollo X system. That way I can control 'Other' music playback via a LUNA Input 'channel' similar to 'old school' HW. That certainly is not the least expensive method, so what do others suggest?

Later
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
rjjuly said:
Here is an exerpt from the LUNA FAQ I wrote a couple years back:
======
So UA has brought together the two disparate signal paths - the input (record) path of the Apollo, and the track (playback) path of the traditional DAW, and put it into the single LUNA single channel strip.

It lays out like this:

INPUT section (Apollo)
- input controls [record path] (mic/ line, phase, gain, hi pass, etc...)
- Unison [record path]
- Record FX [record path]

TAPE section (native extension)
emulates the point between recording and playback of the audio on magnetic tape.

INSERTS section 8x (Satellite DSP, or Apollo, if necessary)
DSP based effects for mixing, like what you would put across the inserts of a console track on playback from tape.

SENDS section 8x (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Essentially this ( and the OUTPUT section) embodies what LUNA was designed to do - natively emulate the routing and summing of a classic console to buss outputs which can then be assigned internally or sent to Apollo outputs. This is the piece that really stitches the DAW functionality to the Apollo's, for outbound audio. Also why the summing has to be an extension, and can't be a UAD plugin - it has to run natively.

CUES section (Apollo and LUNA native)
This is hybrid, making transparent the coordination of a DAWs cues and the cues of the Apollo's real-time monitoring.

OUTPUT section (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Routing to any busses or Stereo Bus. These busses or Stereo bus would then be assigned to Apollo outputs.
========

It's important to remember that Luna incorporates the console functionality - there is no requirement to even open console - the console functionality is available from the 'input' section of the channel strip.

A.R.M. (acelerated realtime monitoring) is the core of how the Apollo as an input consloe is plumbed into LUNA. The help document for that functionality is here:

- Richard

P.S. yes, a signal path diagram would be nice!
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I trying to understand! That ties my HW brain to my DAW side! Thanks
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
rjjuly said:
Here is an exerpt from the LUNA FAQ I wrote a couple years back:
======
So UA has brought together the two disparate signal paths - the input (record) path of the Apollo, and the track (playback) path of the traditional DAW, and put it into the single LUNA single channel strip.

It lays out like this:

INPUT section (Apollo)
- input controls [record path] (mic/ line, phase, gain, hi pass, etc...)
- Unison [record path]
- Record FX [record path]

TAPE section (native extension)
emulates the point between recording and playback of the audio on magnetic tape.

INSERTS section 8x (Satellite DSP, or Apollo, if necessary)
DSP based effects for mixing, like what you would put across the inserts of a console track on playback from tape.

SENDS section 8x (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Essentially this ( and the OUTPUT section) embodies what LUNA was designed to do - natively emulate the routing and summing of a classic console to buss outputs which can then be assigned internally or sent to Apollo outputs. This is the piece that really stitches the DAW functionality to the Apollo's, for outbound audio. Also why the summing has to be an extension, and can't be a UAD plugin - it has to run natively.

CUES section (Apollo and LUNA native)
This is hybrid, making transparent the coordination of a DAWs cues and the cues of the Apollo's real-time monitoring.

OUTPUT section (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Routing to any busses or Stereo Bus. These busses or Stereo bus would then be assigned to Apollo outputs.
========

It's important to remember that Luna incorporates the console functionality - there is no requirement to even open console - the console functionality is available from the 'input' section of the channel strip.

A.R.M. (acelerated realtime monitoring) is the core of how the Apollo as an input consloe is plumbed into LUNA. The help document for that functionality is here:

- Richard

P.S. yes, a signal path diagram would be nice!
Click to expand...
What is the Link to that Article?

If I do a graphics-like LUNA Signal Flow, I'll pass it on to you for review/approval.

Cheers
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
Thanks to all for the excellent replies.

With all the above in mind, when might a mid-level to expert user open Console for specific task? When in LUNA Settings, Hardware is set to Core, not Apollo?
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
"It's important to remember that Luna incorporates the console functionality - there is no requirement to even open console - the console functionality is available from the 'input' section of the channel strip.

A.R.M. (accelerated realtime monitoring) is the core of how the Apollo as an input consloe is plumbed into LUNA. The help document for that functionality is here:

- Richard

P.S. yes, a signal path diagram would be nice!"

I think a 'light' turned on . . . I have always thought of ARM as only being a 'fixed feature' that allows near real-time monitoring. After a summary read over the above Help Article, [it] depends on where it is enabled! I need to get a grip on it's details.

Cheers
 
klasaine

klasaine

Hall of Fame Member
The only time I open Console is when I want to either demo 'live' a UAD plugin or play guitar, bass, or keys through my UAD2 plugins.
Or, when I'm demoing the uafx pedals for my guitar player buddies.
*I only have Apollo interfaces. I never use core audio.
 
J

Joe Porto

Hall of Fame Member
Grievous Angel said:
THANKS. That helps, at least from a Newbie perspective.

From a Mac Sonoma 14.x view point ... How do most handle listening to music, i.e., Apple Music, USB Stick, CD, etc?

Example: Unless I am missing a 'Trick', assigning Mac's Audio MIDI Setup Output to UAudio TB of course allows music listening (depending on where your Speaker Monitors are attached). If I open LUNA (with Apple Music playing), interrupting Apple Music's signal flow can be challenging at a minimum. How most handle that scenario?

In an analog world, you would several ways to easily control the music source, i.e., patchbays to AUX Inputs, etc. With that in mine ... how best to do the same thing in LUNA (or Console if necessary)?

I currently am using my RME ADI-2 Pro FS (still among the better AD/DA) as the Output Device (Mac Audio MIDI Setup) however my Studio Monitors are NOT connected to ADI-2 DA Outputs . . . the Studio Monitors are connected to Apollo X DA Monitor Out! Using ADI-2 ADAT S/MUX Out as an ADAT Input to the Apollo X system. That way I can control 'Other' music playback via a LUNA Input 'channel' similar to 'old school' HW. That certainly is not the least expensive method, so what do others suggest?

Later
Click to expand...
You can do the same with Apollo virtual tracks and omit the RME. Assign Mac audio out to a pair of virtual tracks (asigned under speaker config in mac audio/midi setup). This will route your Mac audio to a pair of virtual tracks in Console and/or Luna.
 
rjjuly

rjjuly

Moderator
Moderator
Grievous Angel said:
What is the Link to that Article?

If I do a graphics-like LUNA Signal Flow, I'll pass it on to you for review/approval.

Cheers
Click to expand...
That FAQ post was written a while back, just after the release of LUNA, so is well out of date. However, FWIW :

LUNA FAQ

This thread is being closed in the next week or two, and will be updated in a new thread: https://uadforum.com/community/index.php?threads/luna-faq-2025.75050/ *disclaimer - none of the contents of this faq represent the official opinion or position of Universal Audio. It is my own attempt to...
uadforum.com
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Active Member
rjjuly said:
Here is an exerpt from the LUNA FAQ I wrote a couple years back:
======
So UA has brought together the two disparate signal paths - the input (record) path of the Apollo, and the track (playback) path of the traditional DAW, and put it into the single LUNA single channel strip.

It lays out like this:

INPUT section (Apollo)
- input controls [record path] (mic/ line, phase, gain, hi pass, etc...)
- Unison [record path]
- Record FX [record path]

TAPE section (native extension)
emulates the point between recording and playback of the audio on magnetic tape.

INSERTS section 8x (Satellite DSP, or Apollo, if necessary)
DSP based effects for mixing, like what you would put across the inserts of a console track on playback from tape.

SENDS section 8x (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Essentially this ( and the OUTPUT section) embodies what LUNA was designed to do - natively emulate the routing and summing of a classic console to buss outputs which can then be assigned internally or sent to Apollo outputs. This is the piece that really stitches the DAW functionality to the Apollo's, for outbound audio. Also why the summing has to be an extension, and can't be a UAD plugin - it has to run natively.

CUES section (Apollo and LUNA native)
This is hybrid, making transparent the coordination of a DAWs cues and the cues of the Apollo's real-time monitoring.

OUTPUT section (LUNA native, with a bit of Apollo)
Routing to any busses or Stereo Bus. These busses or Stereo bus would then be assigned to Apollo outputs.
========

It's important to remember that Luna incorporates the console functionality - there is no requirement to even open console - the console functionality is available from the 'input' section of the channel strip.

A.R.M. (acelerated realtime monitoring) is the core of how the Apollo as an input consloe is plumbed into LUNA. The help document for that functionality is here:

- Richard

P.S. yes, a signal path diagram would be nice!
Click to expand...
In Summary:

RECORD Path > INPUT SECTION: Input Controls + Unison + Rec FX.

Going down through the Input Channel/Track >
UTILITY SECTION: PLAYBACK Path
TAPE SECTION: Both REC + PB Paths
CONSOLE SECTION: PLAYBACK Path
PLAYBACK Path > INSERTS > SENDS (1-4 AUX RETURNS) > CUES + OUTPUTS (Internal + Apollo Outputs).

BUS or MAIN Channel/Track: PLAYBACK Path > SUMMING (Bus + Outputs) > UTILITY > MASTER TAPE > CONSOLE > INSERTS > SENDS >
CUES + OUTPUTS.

Is this the basic signal flow (REC and PLAY)?

Later
 
Billy_bSLAYER

Billy_bSLAYER

Active Member
Grievous Angel said:
In Summary:

RECORD Path > INPUT SECTION: Input Controls + Unison + Rec FX.

Going down through the Input Channel/Track >
UTILITY SECTION: PLAYBACK Path
TAPE SECTION: Both REC + PB Paths
CONSOLE SECTION: PLAYBACK Path
PLAYBACK Path > INSERTS > SENDS (1-4 AUX RETURNS) > CUES + OUTPUTS (Internal + Apollo Outputs).

BUS or MAIN Channel/Track: PLAYBACK Path > SUMMING (Bus + Outputs) > UTILITY > MASTER TAPE > CONSOLE > INSERTS > SENDS >
CUES + OUTPUTS.

Is this the basic signal flow (REC and PLAY)?

Later
Click to expand...
As per pages 545-546 in the Luna 1.5 manual with the Console (API Vision Extensions you can reorder them with other plug-ins in the Insert Section, to allow for mixing flexibility. Which is what I do to have the Console act as if there is a Microphone/DI feeding it with the full signal path, from Instrument > Amp > FX > Cab(sim) Mic(sim) > Console.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
UAD Bundle Month
Top