Making the most of a G4 400 mhz

[Yerm]

Hi.

Description: G4 400 mhz AGP, 704 mb ram, a Seagate 30 gb ATA/66, a Quantum 10 gb ATA/66, both on the ATA 4 bus, and a a WD 120 gb ATA/100 sitting over the ATAPI drive on the 3 bus.

My PCI slots are full: MOTU pci-324, 2408 mkII, UA UAD-1, and an additional ATI rage in the 4th slot. All i/o disabled for mixing except analog 1-2.

I am experiencing stuttering with Digital Performer v.3.11 even while using the UAD card plug-ins. I am maxing out my machine with audio because I am now getting clients that need more \"done to them.\" I've been able to get about 33 channels going including 24/48 audio and subgroups, more than I ever expected to be able to do, but am crapping out right when I'm trying to bus the last reverb sends javascript:emoticon(':x')(usually a RealVerb on drums, and a native for instruments and hopefully a third of one or the other for vocals). This is after a couple 1176's, LA-2A's, native eq's on everything, and sub-grouping. Maybe a waves pitch shifter, and the MW limiter on the drum mix bus.

I am planning on upgrading somehow through Mac Gurus, was looking at the Giga cpu upgrades after viewing more user forums than I can think of now. Up all night trying to find a solution. Excuse me if I repeat things covered elsewhere, but all the info is in a constipated blob in my head.

Questions:
1. Would I be better off with a single 1.8 ghz or a dual 1.3 card with this machine and these ATA/memory and bus limitations? I'm trying to go cheap as possible, but would spend the extra for the dp if Digital Performer ran better (can be optimized for dual).

2. Will I be better off with a single ATI 9000 to get the other card off the pci bus? Removing the card and second monitor did not improve my audio performance significantly.

3. Would the single processor upgrade give me enough beef to upgrade to OS 10.3.9 and DP 4.6? It sounds like some folks are having success with the latter using a Giga 1.2 card, but I don't think their running as many tracks and plug-ins as I am.

4. Would the gain from getting an SATA PCI card be better than that of a CPU upgrade?

5. Would a CPU upgrade be unnoticed due to a slower ATA bus speed?

Sorry, I repeating myself here, but I'm in a client bind and would like something in the next few days, but am very tight in the money arena right now. Hoping for guidance.

Thanks,

Jeff - and I did get a lot from your forum and others. Just need some individual attn. as fast as possible.

 

[Trace]

Hey Yerm,

1st of all I have a G4 350Mhz that served me well for a long time running DP3. I now use it for running my Oasys PCI card.

I now have a G5 Dual 1.8Ghz. I think that when it comes to price you have to really be careful. If you simply can't wait any longer and must upgrade, then go for the G5, but try to look for a used G5. I bought mine for only $1,500.00, which at the time was a significant savings. If you only need to get more Audio channels as well as a smooth and stable GUI then a Single Processor G5 should be fine. Just make sure that its a model that doesn't have compatibility issues with the UAD. Some models of G5, mine included, have a problem with the UAD-1. Go to the UA website and you'll find info on which models to stay away from.

As far as a Video card, if you get a G5 it should come with a card capable of dual monitor output. Mine did and it works GREAT. i just bought an ADC adapter and away I went.

I don't trust Proc. upgrades. There's always a chance that it may not work well with something in your system and isn't always future proof.

SATA on your PCI bus should actually give you better performance, due to the bandwidth of the PCI Bus being greater than the ATA bus, however you are putting a lot on the PCI Bus already and might max it out causing problems. I'd suspect that you'd have to remove the ATI and get a Dual head Matrox AGP Video card to replace the original you have.

I doubt that the SATA PCI card would help much in regards to the strain on the host CPU, so a CPU upgrade would do more to help the overall responsiveness of the system.

CPU upgrades help everything to varying degrees. The ATA performance might be helped a little, but I doubt it would be significant.

My advice is to save up for a G5 or maybe even a Dual 1.2 Ghz G4 or better. I think it would be more powerful, compatible, stable and reliable than a CPU upgrade.

TRACE

 

[Yerm]

Trace,

Thanks for the perspective. I am forced to do something now. AFter about 12 hrs of research, I decided to get a 1.8 ghz cpu upgrade. I found a ton of information and positive feedback about the giga designs ones, and expect to have good results with the uad, though I might be also forced to get dp 4.52, which I've wanted anyway, but was putting off to go with a system upgrade.

Your perspective on the drives, etc. definitely helps. I hadn't actually thought (although it's obvious, isn't it) about the SATA drives/card hitting the PCI bandwidth. I think I've been able to get away with so much up to this point because I've been keeping OS and apps. on one drive and audio on another, even though they've been on the same bus.

Thanks again. Anyone else? It's still a possible mult-stage solution, and all feedback would be welcome.

 

[danickstr]

hate to say it but i recommend against a proc. upgrade. get ready to de-value your time and end up not happy.

 

[will]

awhile back i got a prologix 900mhz upgrade for my old g3 from 400 mhz and all worked well and gave me much needed headroom. however that headroom didnt last long and i got the last g4's 1.25 mhz dual boot and was amazed at how much more powerfull the g4 was. the faster system buss. faster ata buss and better video and ram really adds up. i still use my g3 900mhz so it wasnt a waste.anyways if you get the giga upgrade tell us how well it goes



will

 

[UAJames]

Yes, the processor speed is only part of the performance of you system; RAM speed, IDE bus speed, hard-drive speed, etc all play integral roles.

That and the fact that we don't officially support proc upgrades with the UAD-1 card

 

[gracejames]

I have the same G4 400. I decided to go with an OWC 1.4 processor. It has been rock solid with UAD. The performance boost is definately noticeable. I didn't want to spend beyond a certain point so i didn't go with a dual because i would rather just buy a new comp at that price point. Put your extra money into beefing up the front end. (mics/mic pres, etc). =j

 

[Yerm]

since I've been loving you

All,

Thanks for all the support/comments/suggestions. Here's feedback.

Got a 1..8 ghz GigaDesigns cpu accellerator (oh, sorry, \"G-cellerator\") for the old box. They, and Mac Gurus, the place I got it from, both have a 30 day money back return policy, no restocking fee. MG only has this policy on cpu upgrades, but that is exceptionally cool, due to compatibility issues, etc. No official OS 9 3rd party app. support or testing from Giga. As James said, no official cpu upgrade support from UA. Expected to have to go straight to DP 4.5, hence that part of my question in the first post. The giga folks actually thought there might be clocking issues with the UAD-1, but also because of many of your replies and those of people on Unicornation, I bought with a degree of confidence.

It finally got here (as expected via UPS ground, but it killed me to wait). Put it in, no problem. OSX stuff ran fine, the UAD stuff with Peak 4 was glitch free. Fired up OS 9 to use DP, and also, NO PROBLEMS. WHATSOEVER. Relieved I am. Again, trying to get there on as little money as possible. I added the everb plugin that choked the thing on the other processor, barely bumped the cpu meter. Added another RealVerb, (although I was alreasdy at 80% on the UAD), and that stuttered and coughed up the \"too much throughput\" error thing in DP. Got rid of that, since it's not truely stereo anyway, in that you can't position the reverb of individual instruments by sending two differing level mono sends to the thing on an aux, or at least I haven't figured out how. Added another everb, then an ARboretum Ionizer to check the spectrum of my mix. That thing is a hog too. No problems. Then for shits and giggles, I added ANOTHER reverb, and finally pushed the thing up to around 85%. I would suspect half of that has to do with bus speed, the cpu being starved for data, etc.

All this was on a mix with like 28 audio tracks and 36 channels altogether. UA dynamics plugs on all the aux busses, indiv. on many drum elements, on vox. Native eq's on everything, and different reverbs for the drums, instruments, and vocals. I got exactly what I need, and the slack time to upgrade to 4.5 when it's more financially viable. And my mixes are kicking all the ass I wanted them to. The client will be happy.

Thanks again, all.

 

[jetman]

giga upgrades

I went with the gigadesigns 1.8 Dual upgrade on a Digital Audio 533 g4. Thus far I've had no problems with my PT 002r DAW. Of course no company actually will approve them (I can understand why) but I took the risk anyway. It's been great to not sweat doing a mix, rewiring, etc. I do alot of dialogue editing, video work and compression encoding so the speed bump there REALLY helps.

My studio has been down for about a month (I'm moving) so I've not been banging on it too hard. If I run into anything I'll post it.

However I did move the box to my day-gig studio where I connnected it a PT MBox. Don't do it! I hit 3 UAD plugs and everything went crazy. The dread MBox white noise problem. I took the UAD plugs out and everything was fine again. I was so looking forward to using the Prec Limiter on the radio show I produce, but I had to revert to stock RTAS and Bomb Factory stuff. (a sad day).

Jt