MPE support

[Thorn]

Hi,
I just ordered a Roli Seaboard Rise 2 MPE controller and was wondering if I’d be able to use Luna to record with it (in mpe mode) or I’ll have to move to another DAW?
Thanks in advance for the info.
T.

 

[UniversalAudio]

Hi,
I just ordered a Roli Seaboard Rise 2 MPE controller and was wondering if I’d be able to use Luna to record with it (in mpe mode) or I’ll have to move to another DAW?
Thanks in advance for the info.
T.

LUNA does not have MPE support.

 

[exoslime]

also their synths are not mpe compatible, even worse, they (minimoog, polymax) have CC74 hardcoded to Cutoff Filter so when you are doing vertical slide on the roli keybord it will change the cuttoff filter on the presets (i use cubase, there is a midi input transformer function where you can block the CC74,, that does the trick for me using an mpe controller with the UAD synths)

and give Equator 2 a try
its a fantastic MPE compatible synth and provides lots of fun and great sounds

it would be so cool if the modern style UA synths like Polymax and Opal would be MPE compatible one day, because they are fun and sounds great too.

 

[chrisharbin]

Yeah, Live has it but I don't use it. Maybe someday I'll upgrade to Push 3 for it.

Luna could use more midi options for sure, I keep sending them "suggestions"

 

[EoSNJ]

While none of UA's synths are MPE enabled (hell, they're barely midi enabled by todays standards) Luna will properly record multi-channel data from a controller onto a single track.

This is really the key. The beauty of MPE is that it's based on that concept, and backwards compatible with a whole lotta stuff that isn't specifically MPE badged. You can take an old multi-timbral module, set all 16 channels to the same sound and control it from an MPE controller. Roland, Roger, and the rest of the MPE crew really, really got it. right.

So yes, you can instantiate an MPE VI, Equator 2, Pigments, etc, and record a track from a Seaboard (or any MPE controller) and it will record and playback with proper per-note expression tracking (since it's really re-channelizing each note).

 

[Thorn]

also their synths are not mpe compatible, even worse, they (minimoog, polymax) have CC74 hardcoded to Cutoff Filter so when you are doing vertical slide on the roli keybord it will change the cuttoff filter on the presets (i use cubase, there is a midi input transformer function where you can block the CC74,, that does the trick for me using an mpe controller with the UAD synths)

and give Equator 2 a try
its a fantastic MPE compatible synth and provides lots of fun and great sounds

it would be so cool if the modern style UA synths like Polymax and Opal would be MPE compatible one day, because they are fun and sounds great too.

I have been watching a lot of videos on the Rise 2 and it seems a big part of it is Equator 2. Or at least Roli seems to promote it quite a bit so that’s probably the first thing I will try. Only I was hoping to use it in Luna but now it seems I’ll have to use a different DAW to record through the Seaboard. Are there any other mpe compatible plug ins you have experience with? I have Komplete 14 CE but from what i read they don’t really support mpe either or at least it‘s a little complicated to get it working on some of their instruments.

 

[Thorn]

While none of UA's synths are MPE enabled (hell, they're barely midi enabled by todays standards) Luna will properly record multi-channel data from a controller onto a single track.

This is really the key. The beauty of MPE is that it's based on that concept, and backwards compatible with a whole lotta stuff that isn't specifically MPE badged. You can take an old multi-timbral module, set all 16 channels to the same sound and control it from an MPE controller. Roland, Roger, and the rest of the MPE crew really, really got it. right.

So yes, you can instantiate an MPE VI, Equator 2, Pigments, etc, and record a track from a Seaboard (or any MPE controller) and it will record and playback with proper per-note expression tracking (since it's really re-channelizing each note).

Hmm, I‘m not sure if I understand. Do You mean I could actually record an instrumental track using seaboard and equator 2 in Luna? And would I be able to edit that track as you would normally edit a midi track?

 

[EoSNJ]

Hmm, I‘m not sure if I understand. Do You mean I could actually record an instrumental track using seaboard and equator 2 in Luna? And would I be able to edit that track as you would normally edit a midi track?

Yes and no.

Yes you can record an instrument track using the seaboard and equator 2.

What the Seaboard (or any MPE controller) is doing, is playing each note on a different channel. That's how it maintains expression per note - it's all on discrete channels. That allows it to use channel aftertouch but apply it to individual notes - they are all on individual channels. Same for pitch-bend, and other CC's. When they formalized the MPE spec they added some mode messages, but the meat of MPE is that channelization. It can handle 15 channels ( channel 1 or 16 are reserved for the MPE base channel).

It's remarkably simple

So from a DAW standpoint, the important thing is whether it can record incoming multi-channel data onto a single track, and play it back that way. Luna can.

Ableton Live didn't use to be able to - you had to create multiple tracks, 1 for each channel. They changed it in Live 11, I believe.

But Luna does record and playback the data correctly.

Editing is another story - you can, but you'd be flying blind - Luna's midi editing is very basic. Quantize would work ok, but any detailed editing is problematic - visibility into the data is extremely limited, Channel info is not visible.

This screen shot should illustrate the issue. These are just some random-ish notes played from a Seaboard with Equator 2 in Luna. Look in the middle where the C-sharp and F are played. Now look at the pitch bend data at the bottom. One note bends up, one bends down. Can you tell which is which? No, because Luna won't show you the channel data. The 2 notes are on different midi channels, and each has it's own pitchblende stream - but you have no idea which goes with which. And each of the other notes in that clip are also on different midi channels, as is their controller data.

Hope this helps.

 

[Thorn]

Yes and no.

Yes you can record an instrument track using the seaboard and equator 2.

What the Seaboard (or any MPE controller) is doing, is playing each note on a different channel. That's how it maintains expression per note - it's all on discrete channels. That allows it to use channel aftertouch but apply it to individual notes - they are all on individual channels. Same for pitch-bend, and other CC's. When they formalized the MPE spec they added some mode messages, but the meat of MPE is that channelization. It can handle 15 channels ( channel 1 or 16 are reserved for the MPE base channel).

It's remarkably simple

So from a DAW standpoint, the important thing is whether it can record incoming multi-channel data onto a single track, and play it back that way. Luna can.

Ableton Live didn't use to be able to - you had to create multiple tracks, 1 for each channel. They changed it in Live 11, I believe.

But Luna does record and playback the data correctly.

Editing is another story - you can, but you'd be flying blind - Luna's midi editing is very basic. Quantize would work ok, but any detailed editing is problematic - visibility into the data is extremely limited, Channel info is not visible.

This screen shot should illustrate the issue. These are just some random-ish notes played from a Seaboard with Equator 2 in Luna. Look in the middle where the C-sharp and F are played. Now look at the pitch bend data at the bottom. One note bends up, one bends down. Can you tell which is which? No, because Luna won't show you the channel data. The 2 notes are on different midi channels, and each has it's own pitchblende stream - but you have no idea which goes with which. And each of the other notes in that clip are also on different midi channels, as is their controller data.

Hope this helps.

View attachment 18210

Thank you so much for this explanation. I think I get it now. And this whole mpe thing seems quite ingenious. Also happy there at least is a way to record in Luna even if it’s without the ability to edit.