Neve 33609 Plug Vs 33609SE Plug

[NeveLover]

Hi everyone.

I know this is perhaps a little odd but this has been driving me nuts.
After so many listening tests of comparing the full version against the SE version i still cannot hear any difference.

I'm not sure if it's my ears, but from what i've been reading the SE has been made out to sound like a complete joke so im kinda interested in what the quantifiable differences are.

I did a test between the 1081 and the SE version, which clearly showed the full version the superior and i was able to pick it out countless times, but the 33609/se thing is just really vexing me lol.

I bounced a couple of tracks with the full and SE 33609 exact same settings, in logic pro 7, then phase reversed one and allowed them to cancel out, judging by the residual there is some difference, but i have still not heard it!

Thanks all

 

[Macc]

They sound like night and day to me :?

I'll have to do some more detailed tests, but inparticular for me, it feels like transients (esp at the high end) just come to life with the full version. That's probably related to the other thing about it - the gain stage in the compressor section.

If you use cubase or nuendo, offline process a part. Set the limiter off and the compressor to do nothing at all (ie threshold up). Set the compressor gain to 2 and the output gain to -2. Then fade between dry and processed while it is previewing. Things just come to life, and come together in some way. It's so nice... I'm not sure the SE does that, has that 'hidden magic'.

I'll do some more detailed listening tests though

 

[NeveLover]

When i did the phase cancelling trick to work out the differences the average volume of the differences was about -60db, and was limited to the highmid-high freq bands.
Am i right that the only dif between full and se is the upsampling to 192khz? If this is right then surely the only difference is the rendering of higher frequencies?

I think alot of it could be source material, last night i tried again and convinced myself i could discern a difference, then suddenly i stopped hearing the difference.
It's totally pointless really but the thing is really driving me nuts, as i say i can tell the difference between the 1081 se and full but this one i just haven't, perhaps i'll try those settings you suggested.

cheers

 

[Macc]

When i did the phase cancelling trick to work out the differences the average volume of the differences was about -60db, and was limited to the highmid-high freq bands.
Am i right that the only dif between full and se is the upsampling to 192khz? If this is right then surely the only difference is the rendering of higher frequencies?

It's not just that - it's also to enable the (better?) modelling of non-linearities in the device, and not just the audio signal path. For example, according to the webzine, the filter in the auto-release circuit has something going on that means it behaves differently to other compressors' auto-releases. I'd also be inclined to believe that the high to high-mid stuff you hear left over is either the harmonic distortion, or related to the harmonic distortion you get from the unit (eg in that magic gain knob). That definitely ties in with what I hear when I use the full over the SE.

I think alot of it could be source material, last night i tried again and convinced myself i could discern a difference, then suddenly i stopped hearing the difference.

:lol: I'd agree that the source is quite important, naturally...

It's totally pointless really but the thing is really driving me nuts, as i say i can tell the difference between the 1081 se and full but this one i just haven't, perhaps i'll try those settings you suggested.

It's funny, I find the difference between the 1081 full/SE much less than the 33609s

And it's not pointless at all! It's good to know - there may be times where you don't want that extra character/distortion etc...

 

[Awesom-o]

I just tried the 33609 and SE side by side, witht the thresholds all the way up (no compression) the two null out completely apart from the odd transient. Which is a bit weird, if the non-SE is supposed to upsample (?)

Only when I push the compressors to do more work do I get more difference between the two.

 

[Macc]

Do they null when you use a quietish signal, do no compression and turn the compressor gain knobs right up?

 

[NeveLover]

Do they null when you use a quietish signal, do no compression and turn the compressor gain knobs right up?

i'll give it a go and let ya know

 

[NeveLover]

YEY i can hear it! lol

Well, it just goes to show always use the right source material!
I played a bit of piano through it, processed the recording with both plugs identical setting and correctly blind guessed it six times lol.

The track peaked at 0.3 db, the subtleties of the 33609 full were in the -30-40db range, in the high mids (just as you said) they are however in my mind VERY SUBTLE, at least with the ex24 sample yahama grand piano plug.

Oh and to answer your other question, i tried doing what you asked without comp but with the gain up, no more or less difference than with full comp etc.

So far i think the biggest difference i have heard with regards to full vs SE has been the 1081 (the highs on the se are just horse turds in comparison) and the LN vs SE 1176 (although i suppose technically it is a different module.
The all buttons mode on that plug is especially noticeable.

I'm glad you helped me work out the differences between the 33609's it was just driving me crazy!

 

[LFranco]

Only when I push the compressors to do more work do I get more difference between the two.

Likewise. If I use the SE on a drum mix, the difference is slight, but if I use it on the master bus, the difference is night and day there.

 

[Macc]

I'm definitely going to do some more investigation here - I tend to compress my drums quite a lot.... oh, alright - A LOT, and I hear the difference then for sure.

Thanks for possibly freeing up a lot of my dsp!!