New Plug and PCIe

[retro68]

Has UA said anything about a solution for mac users with PCI cards.
I would feel alot more comfortable about purchasing the new plug if I new it, and my other UA plugs, were not going to be boat anchors very soon. It would even be nice if they said \"don't worry - we will come up with something\" even if a specific solution is not available now. For me purchasing an old computer is not an option.

Thanks,

r68

 

[guitarz]

I would feel alot more comfortable about purchasing the new plug if I new it, and my other UA plugs, were not going to be boat anchors very soon. It would even be nice if they said "don't worry - we will come up with something" even if a specific solution is not available now. For me purchasing an old computer is not an option.
r68

When I had pre-sales questions concerning the famous G5-bottleneck, I was assured there would be some sort of "solution", one way or another. I bought in, but have held back on a second card ever since. Seems to me the only soltution left (being as they've all but resigned themselves to leaving the bottleneck problem as-is due to G5 design) is to offer a HANDSOME allowance towards a trade-in or purchase on an updated card. To do anything less after making such pre-sales promises would undermine the company's (thus far solid) reputation.

The only pickle I really see, is how to offer an upgraded card to new G5 users and the large established base of current G5s without having to produce multiple versions of the same card. I would propose an external solution ala Waves new product would cover all bases? (ie: drop PCI altogether and avoid the headaches involved with supporting multiple hardware platforms) Firewire would be fine with me (the Waves networked box seems a bit of a liablity towards system stability)

/semi-rant, speculation

Anyway, Merry Christmas!

 

[Trace]

I have one of those crippled G5's myself. In my current use of the 4 UAD-1's I have, it hasn't presented a huge problem. Tho this is FAR from the most efficient use of either the G5 or the UAD-1's. I would also like to see a breakout box type of solution. The PCIe protocol should last at least another 10 or more years like PCI did. So a PCie host card and breakout box would be a very acceptable idea. I think in the end that is what we'll see. Even if they use the same DSP chip they can still make a move to the PCIe breakout box using a Bridge Chip, so this is a very cost effective move for UA. PErhaps the added Bandwidth will allow them to use more than 4 cards in a single system. That would be great for 96k recording and processing.

Then you also have FW 800 or Gigbit Ethernet, but I don't think either format is as rock solid as PCIe will likely be.

TRACE

 

[madmanXwater]

What about an external FireWire Box? Something like Waves or even FocusRights Saffire box. That would open up the market to PowerBook and iMac users as well. Is this something that could be done?

Mike

 

[Ninja]

Not a good idea as firewire (unfourtunatly) is a dying standard. Even Apple, who invented it, are phasing it out in favour of usb2.

 

[Ashermusic]

Not a good idea as firewire (unfourtunatly) is a dying standard. Even Apple, who invented it, are phasing it out in favour of usb2.

Ninja, AFAIK that is only an unsubstantiated rumor at this point. The guy who said it does not work for Apple.

 

[Ninja]

Jay,

I hope you're right. I've always preffered the firewire protocol myself.

It's strange though that they have completely stopped making ipods with firewire... I think people just see that as a early warning of what to come.

 

[dusty]

Not a good idea as firewire (unfourtunatly) is a dying standard. Even Apple, who invented it, are phasing it out in favour of usb2.

Wrong! Fw is the best protocol for audio recording.. Just look around.. most of the pro audio interfaces are FW. FW800 is almost double of the BW of the current usb2.0. Beside apple will loose money to drop their propretary FW!

Anyway don't worry about it retro68! I just bought my second uad yesteday and i own most of the plug ins. UA just gave us 147$ x-mas present, so i'm pretty shure they won't let us down when the pci-e come out. When you buy an optional plug in, you buy the license. So i think when the new card gonna come out they just transfer the licenses.

 

[Trace]

FW will stay around on Apple's Pro level computers, maybe on some of the consumer models they may phase it out to save money.

There really isn't any reason why UA wouldn't go with a PCIe Host card and Breakout box product. It is actually the easiest thing to do. The bridge chip technology is already available and then its just a matter of having the physical box designed and manufactured. They could easily get that done. I would expect that they could find a very cost effective form factor for the Rackmount unit perhaps a 3U shallow depth chassis.

Unless they are already close to producing a new DSP, I would think they will find a way to continue using the existing DSP PCI card and the breakout box is the easiest route to doing that.

TRACE

 

[guitarz]

Not a good idea as firewire (unfourtunatly) is a dying standard. Even Apple, who invented it, are phasing it out in favour of usb2.

For crying out loud! One hack writer posted a lame rumor on his BLOG which the media picked up on and ran with. That's the only source for the "Firewire phase-out" rumor! (Check it out. ALL links lead to the same blog)

I'm sure his plan to attract hits to his site worked, though... :roll:

 

[guitarz]

...There really isn't any reason why UA wouldn't go with a PCIe Host card and Breakout box product....Unless they are already close to producing a new DSP, I would think they will find a way to continue using the existing DSP PCI card and the breakout box is the easiest route to doing that.

TRACE

So... essentially a PCI card to run a PCI card?

As far as chassis go, I wouldn't be able to get anything which ran a fan or interfered with my computer's deep sleep abilities...

 

[Trace]

...There really isn't any reason why UA wouldn't go with a PCIe Host card and Breakout box product....Unless they are already close to producing a new DSP, I would think they will find a way to continue using the existing DSP PCI card and the breakout box is the easiest route to doing that.

TRACE

So... essentially a PCI card to run a PCI card?

As far as chassis go, I wouldn't be able to get anything which ran a fan or interfered with my computer's deep sleep abilities...

The concept of a PCI Host and breakout box isn't so radical. Lots of Audio interfaces are just that. If you have a rackmount FW box its not much different. PCI expanders are very convenient actually. As long as they use the readily available quiet PSU's out there, it shouldn't be an issue at all.

As far as sleep, my G5 seems to be fine with sleep and my UAD's in my Magma, but I usually just turn off the Magma Chassis when i'm not using it. I hit restart and after the G5 cycles down, I turn off the Magma and the G5 reboots without it. I can then Do what I want without having to burn that extra AC. Like right now i'm on the web and I don't have the Magma on.

I just think that if UA wants to save money this is one way to do it. We'd be paying for the hardware anyway, so they won't lose any money on the Rackmount units. usually they don't make them as expensive as the Magma chassis, which are overkill for what we need generally. Think of all those rackmount products that Behringer makes, they aren't paying a lot for those boxes and UA could use a similar build quality. MOTU or RME type rackmounts would be good as well. That level of build quality is just fine. I'm sure they aren't too expensive. The PCB with PCI slots shouldn't be too costly to get made either, even for the relatively small amount that UA would need.

Of course i'm only speculating, I don't know what the costs are for such a product, but just using reason based on other similar products it wouldn't seem to be cost prohibitive.

TRACE

 

[guitarz]

I hear you on why that would be one way to save money. But, to me it just seems a little hodge-podge in design. A PCI to PCIe solution is something I bet we'll see a third party offer later on though...

I'm betting (actually guessing) we see either a redesigned UAD PCIe card (with additional horsepower?) and/or a Firewire box as an answer to the Powercore competition.

 

[The Beatsmith]

what does everyone think the chances of a NAMM announcement are?

 

[kwiz]

Rumor has it that Apple will be introducing some new gear as well on Jan. 10th. I know it won't be the Intel Macs, thats not until summer 07.
Maybe it'll be dual processor G4 PB's or maybe a G5 PB.
Either way I hope UAD is planning on going the route of a FW box that will solve some of our PCI issues.

 

[guitarz]

Either way I hope UAD is planning on going the route of a FW box that will solve some of our PCI issues.

And portable competition...

 

[Resonant Alien]

If it ends up being a breakout box solution, maybe I'll just keep my PowerMac G4 and run apulSoft's wormhole to connect with a new MacIntel - that's basically the same idea.

I hate the idea of having to spend more money on some breakout box just to run hardware that I have already invested money in - that really blows.

Whatever the case, UA is losing money already by not making an announcement - I was on the verge of buying my 3rd UAD card when I stumbled on the fact that Mac towers no longer support PCI. That stopped me cold. I am not spending any more $$$ on UAD hardware until they tell us what is going on!

 

[esencia]

Me too...
I own two cards but I not gonna buy more until I know if they will release a new card for PCI-e or not.

 

[caseyschultheis]

PCIe

I believe that UA will make a PCIe card but right now it is too soon to say how much and when! Apple is soon to come out with a whole new line of Intel based Mac's and Apple had not said for sure that they will even have PCIe slots inside these machines. When Apple released these most recent Power Mac G5 Dual and Power Mac G5 Quad dual-core PowerPC processors they gave their 3rd party developers no warning! That is why it has took this long to develop, test, market and sell a new product!

UA is committed to the Apple Macintosh platform and any developments in the UAD product line will reflect that.
 
We are constantly monitoring trends in computer technology, DSP and developments in bus/interface formats and therefore UA is already well-aware of PCI-E and Expresscard. For those customers that are not certain, PCI-E is a new and completely different form factor to PCI and is not backwards compatible with any PCI cards. The UAD-1 will ONLY work in PCI and PCI-X slots.
 
We have no new UAD product announcements at the current time, but will of course keep our customers informed of planned developments for the UAD product line as soon as we have any major news.
 
If current UAD-1 users absolutely need to interface to PCI-E, there are a number of third party products available including those below.
 
http://www.mobl.com/expansion/products/ ... index.html
 
http://www.sbs.com/products/774/ 

Thanks

Casey

 

[dix]

Thanks Casey. My, an avalanche of information compared to what we've (not) heard from UA until now.

As I suspected all along, it looks like it will be a good long while before we see a UA solution for current Macs. Your post implies UA will wait until the fall (summer at the earliest!) when the Intel Macs ship to make a decision to make a PCIe cards or not. Then a PCIe card (or whatever IS decided) will come along sometime after that. ...w UA being small and not the speediest of companies, we're looking at a year-ish realistically if the implications from Casey's post turn out to be true. Bummer.

...i'll let others chime in to say why the possibility of elimination of PCI altogether is remote - but you never can tell w Apple. UA tends to play it cautious apparently, so maybe it is best to wait.