People Recording Vocals @ 88.2khz or 96khz, Please Come In.

[Arys Chien]

Hi guys,

I just did some tests, recording vocals @ 44.1khz, 48khz and 88.2khz. I found that, the higher the sample rate,

1. The larger the face
2. The wider the face
3. The thinner the bass
4. The higher (vertical position) the face
5. It's becoming more like \"a piece of face\" instead of \"a 3D head\"

The face is so large and vertically high that it's a bit weird in the mix.

I don't know if it's something I did wrong or it's the side effect with higher sample rates.

People that record vocals @ 88.2khz or 96khz, can you share your experience with me? Thanks in advance.

 

[imdrecordings]

I record at 88.2, but don't really understand what you are trying to say.
Help me out... I'm slow. With the reading comprehention level of a kindergartner.

I do notice a difference between 44.1 and 88.2.. mainly in the high end detail and the over all firmness in the lowend. Maybe that's what you are experiencing. I've been doing 88.2, because I've been boucning to my 2 track tape machine. Things seem to sit better in the mix at a higher sample rate... To my ears anyway. :? But my PC and UADs take a hit... Damn :x
For stuff I keep in the box or Demos, I stay with 44.1. After bouncing stuf down to 16bit-44.1khz from a 24-88.2 session, I can't really hear the difference. After I bounce my 88.2khz mix to tape, I either send the reels off to John Golden or some other ME...

http://goldenmastering.com/

 

[Arys Chien]

I was just not sure about the difference I heard. Maybe I need to experiment more to be able to describe it more accurately.

 

[Fundy]

Do you mean the distance from the microphone diaphragm and it different \"colour\" when picked up from different points? I've read something about this. As far as I can recall, there are optimum locations you can work out and use depending on the singer and the body of ther voice.

 

[Arys Chien]

Sorry, not about mic positioning either. It's the same singer and same sweet spot in the room with the same mic and everything. The only difference is the sample rate the recording software works at.

 

[imdrecordings]

Your Converters will sound different, set at different sample rates. What are you using? It may be that you are hearing your mic, pre, cables and what ever else you have in the chain, in fuller detail. Try doing a whole session in 88.2.. I think it's sounds better, but once bounced to 16-44.1kz, I can't tell the difference from a session starting and staying at 44.1khz. That may have to do with my lack of certain experience/ knowledge. Just my humble opinion. 8)

 

[brian]

So are you saying the 'face' moves up, as in seems to sit higher up in the frequency range or image? Also not sure what you mean by 'piece of face' ... are you finding less depth in the vocal? In my experience recording anything at 88 or 96 results in a sound that's a bit smoother and has more depth than at 44.1 (to varying degrees depending on what is being recorded).

 

[Arys Chien]

Hi Scott,

I'm using the Lavry Blue AD/DAs.

and Brian,

Exactly what you said. Sorry for my lack of vocabulary.

By saying \"a piece of face\" I do mean thinner. At 44 the vocal \"looks\" like a solid basketball, the width, height \"thickness\" (as to the length in the x, y and z axises) are about the same. Yet at 88, the vertical position is a bit higher, while the height increases more than the width (hey why the long face) and the \"thickness\" looks relatively decreased for it stays the same.

I'm in chaos here. For now I don't have a preference for the three, since they all have their problems (as to me).

 

[brian]

OK I understand what you are saying. It is hard to speculate what is causing this...I will try to keep things going here with the 3d face concept:

I guess it is possible that the face seems 'longer' or 'taller' since you are capturing higher frequencies at 88.2 kHz. Does it seem like the chin sits at the same height as at 44.1 but the rest of the face extends upwards, to be taller than it seems at 44.1? Or does the bottom of the face seem to sit higher up as well?

Not sure why it might become thinner sounding. What mic & preamp have you used for these recordings?

 

[Arys Chien]

Hi Brian,

Exactly what you said. Chin at the same place with the face extending upwards.

I'm using Brauner VMA + Neve 1073 (Brent Avrill) + Lavry Blue AD/DA into Samplitude 8.

 

[BTLG]

you are all relatively insane.

 

[Ericcc]

you are all relatively insane.

:twisted:

Hehehe or the glass is half full.....

Anyway, it seems true to me as well since I notice some changes in image and lower frequencies depending on the use of 44k or 88k. But it is extrememly subtle. I have no clue what causes this nor do I have a solid preference yet. 88k seems smoother and tightening up the whole frequency spectrum. If you get better defined high frequencies you also get the illusion that the recorded source seems higher in front of you in the stereo image.

I wonder what would cause the difference in 3d observation. Interesting stuff though... Maybe somebody has a good explanation for all of this.

 

[Arys Chien]

I'm not sure about the others, but I myself am a little be insane.

And I sure wanna get out of this quick.

To my ears (from my monitors) there's still some subtle difference after 88 and 48 have been processed down to a 44 CD, but the difference is even more subtle on normal systems (like average PC speakers or iPods, which most people listen to their music with).

So I tried not to care about it anymore. Yet my self esteem (or my ego) gets in the way....

 

[imdrecordings]

Fuck 88.2..
For the first time tonight,in the middle of a song, my Session popped up a flag saying \"you are recording to many tracks\" and stopped recording. How embarrassing! It was freaking 9 tracks of audio.. I've never seen it do this before. Bullshit..
I'm going back to 44.1khz.
After the switch, I had a serious drop out. About 1min. into a song...weird..
What the fuck!!
Maybe my hard drive is going south.. :?
God Damn it!

:evil:

 

[Ericcc]

What DAW are you using Arys ?

 

[Arys Chien]

I was using Samplitude 8 Professional for the test.

 

[Awesom-o]

A horse goes into a bar.
The barman looks up and says \"Hey, why the long face?\"

boom-boom

(sorry couldn't resist)

 

[imdrecordings]

I was using Samplitude 8 Professional for the test.

Arys.
Did you figure this one out?
I had this happen at 88.2 but not 44.1 or 96khz. in SAM V9.
I read on this thread that it could have something to do with DC offset.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/3653/0/

Read through it. They don't start talking about it until halfway through page 1.

 

[Arys Chien]

Scott,

I read through the thread, but it's not the same with my problem. I was not talking about how the waveform looks like, but how the sound looks like between the speakers.