Precision Multiband Latency

[philwal]

[/quote]
The Precision Multiband requires a large processing buffer to perform its
sonic wonders. This buffer results in a significantly larger latency than other
UAD-1 plugins. This is not normally an issue because the Precision Multiband
is designed to be used for program material on the output bus, where latency
is not a consideration. However, if the Precision Multiband is used elsewhere
in the signal chain AND the host does NOT automatically compensate for latency
at that point in the signal chain, the latency must be manually compensated.
Note: Compensating for Precision Multiband latency is not required if the host
application supports “full delay compensation” throughout the entire signal
path, OR when it is used only on the outputs.

This above quote is taken from the Manual.

I am at present working on a project in Cubase SX3.1 with lowest latency setting. I added the PMB on the output stage just before the PL. I then need to add some midi tracks, and discovered that the latency was very poor. This was solved by turning off the PMB for the time being. As I was only using it on the Output, why was there a latency problem?

 

[Mark Edmonds]

Probably because if your midi (and vsti?) plus everything else is going through that master channel, everything is affected by the latency and can't be compensated in terms of \"time advance\".

Mark

 

[philwal]

[/quote]
Note: Compensating for Precision Multiband latency is not required if the host
application supports “full delay compensation” throughout the entire signal
path, OR when it is used only on the outputs.

Then why does it state quite clearly that compenstation is not required in those circumstances?

 

[jcat]

The manual is wrong, it will still introduce latency if you put it on the an SX output buss.

That's all... 8)



Cheers,

jcat

 

[jcat]

BTW, it's very bad practive to work on a track with a dynamics processor on the main output... [-(

...but I'm sure you know that already. =;




Cheers,

jcat

 

[Ashermusic]

BTW, it's very bad practive to work on a track with a dynamics processor on the main output... [-(

...but I'm sure you know that already. =;




Cheers,

jcat

Exactly. This is a mastering plug-in and is designed to be used after the composing/arranging/mixing have been completed.

 

[Trebor Flow 2]

Although it is OK and often very benificial to mix through a mix bus compressor as you mix just knocking off 1-2 dB it really glues things together on a DAW and I have started to work this way. I find I use less track comp and things start to come together quicker.

So come on AU please model something like an Alan Smart C2 (URS are about to release ther offerings in this dept, but I KNOW AU will do it heaps better.

Hey do you think they are getting the hint

Trebor \"the optimist \" Flow

 

[philwal]

Just wanted to try it out on a new project for a new album, as the mixing and mastering was virtually finished for my new CD before Multiband came out. I had the first two sections down on track and wanted to see how effective it would be, before finally deciding to purchase it. Its effect along with PL etc was very good, so I had the sound I wanted. Just forget to turn it off for the new sections, and was struck by the Latency problem.

So the manual is wrong? They should be more careful with their statements.

 

[Trebor Flow 2]

Oops I mean come on UA as oppossed to the french spelling AU (Le Owdio Universaal)

Duh.

 

[Celsius]

Then why does it state quite clearly that compenstation is not required in those circumstances?

It doesn't sound wrong(the manual)
Unless you believe delay compensation has a magical way of predicting what you're gonna play and suddenly be able to compensate in 'realtime'.

PDC is a playback only feature.
The reason it's not needed on outputs is simple:
Everything goes thru it so there is no relative delay between tracks/channels..

 

[Mark Edmonds]

Exactly! In fact, that is what UA should do next - the Precision Predictor Just imagine all those perfect takes :sigh:

Seriously though, in relation to the original question, it just requires an understanding of how PDC works and what it can and cannot do. Hopefully, things are a little clearer now?

Mark

 

[philwal]

Everything is clear now. It was the discrepency between what the manual said and what was happening that caused me to write in the first place. Interesting that the manual allows for using the Multiband away from the output stage.

 

[jcat]

Then why does it state quite clearly that compenstation is not required in those circumstances?

It doesn't sound wrong(the manual)
Unless you believe delay compensation has a magical way of predicting what you're gonna play and suddenly be able to compensate in 'realtime'.

PDC is a playback only feature.
The reason it's not needed on outputs is simple:
Everything goes thru it so there is no relative delay between tracks/channels..

If you mix in the box and truly only have one "master out" then the manual is more correct, if you use all the output busses and are just applying it to one of them individually, you will still suffer delay problems relative to the other outputs.

Or am I confusing the issue... ..not sure.




Cheers,

jcat

 

[Akis]

AFAIK, if you use multiple outputs and insert the PMB in one of them, any host with full PDC should compensate for it; same for any other point in the signal chain. It's just that you'll get more latency than with the other UAD-1 plugs.

 

[beubbo]

Although it is OK and often very benificial to mix through a mix bus compressor as you mix just knocking off 1-2 dB it really glues things together on a DAW and I have started to work this way. I find I use less track comp and things start to come together quicker.

So come on AU please model something like an Alan Smart C2 (URS are about to release ther offerings in this dept, but I KNOW AU will do it heaps better.

Hey do you think they are getting the hint

Trebor "the optimist " Flow

Hi Trevor,

What kind of compressor(s) are you currently using on your MasterBuss while mixing ?

Did you ever tried to insert 2 compressors in serial (say, 2 LA2A or a LA2A followed by a 1176 or something else...) with an even slighter reduction like 1 dB each as opposed to 2 dB on a single compressor ? Just some thoughts...

Would be glad to hear you about that & the others too !

Thanks

 

[WildCowboys]

For my last project I used 2 2buss comps in series. the first one is the Oxford Dynamics (GR of about 3dB) and after this the Fairchild (GR of about 2dB). I liked the result better than using more GR on just one compressor.

I would also not try to have a MB on while mixing...though mixing through a wideband 2buss comp after the basic mix is set up is definitely a good thing!

Rock on!
Pat

 

[jcat]

AFAIK, if you use multiple outputs and insert the PMB in one of them, any host with full PDC should compensate for it; same for any other point in the signal chain. It's just that you'll get more latency than with the other UAD-1 plugs.

Of course you are probably right, I think the last time I was bouncing stems for someone using lots of output busses I was using SX 1 or 2 and there was a problem with delay on some of the busses relative to the first buss (or master as it waqs then). I guess that is fixed since PDC was totally sorted in SX. I've just always played it safe since and bounced everything out of the first buss out of habit. What a fool I've been! #-o



Cheers,

jcat

 

[Raddler]

Has this, or will this latency problem ever get fixed with the MB compressor?

 

[Joe Porto]

All modern DAWS compensate for latency. That may not have been the case 18 years ago when this thread was active.

The PMB comp is not a plugin designed for real time, and it’s doubtful that will change. But your DAW will compensate for its latency when mixing.

You can reference this chart to help choose the best plugins for low latency monitoring.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1XjfD0GxEnWS_4nqWcz3J_RUEQDuBjCYhnO8YeiBuKWk/htmlview

 

[Raddler]

All modern DAWS compensate for latency. That may not have been the case 18 years ago when this thread was active.

The PMB comp is not a plugin designed for real time, and it’s doubtful that will change. But your DAW will compensate for its latency when mixing.

You can reference this chart to help choose the best plugins for low latency monitoring.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1XjfD0GxEnWS_4nqWcz3J_RUEQDuBjCYhnO8YeiBuKWk/htmlview

Ok, thanks. I do think however, that any plugin being sold in 2023 should be able to accommodate real time use while mixing. In that chart, looks like the multi band is on another level of latency compared to the others. I think UA can do better and should fix it.