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Precision Multiband upward compression

Sebastian

New Member
It would be more than great if the PM not only could compress downward.
Upward compression preserves most attacks and transients and although raises low levels in the program. It should not be so difficult to implement.
The PM should compete with Waves C4 and today I think the C4 is very more flexible.
 

danilop

Member
Are you reffering to expander when you talk about \"upward compression\"?

If so, it's already implemented and it's selectable per band, i.e. you can compress one band, expand second, and even gate third if you want ....

:wink:
 

polygen

Active Member
no he isn't. an expander raises gain above a threshold....it's an \"upward gate\" if you like, and increases dynamics. an upward compressor raises gain *below* a threshold, which results in dynamics being reduced, which basically is why it is called compression. The advantage of upward compression is that the transients/attacks/peaks stay (mostly) unaltered, while still raising mean amplitude of the program. You find upward compressors in some Lexicon units....and they rock. You can get more density on a signal without the most significant features (the peaks) being compromised.

Count my vote in for upward compression!
 

danilop

Member
polygen said:
no he isn't. an expander raises gain above a threshold....it's an "upward gate" if you like, and increases dynamics. an upward compressor raises gain *below* a threshold, which results in dynamics being reduced, which basically is why it is called compression. The advantage of upward compression is that the transients/attacks/peaks stay (mostly) unaltered, while still raising mean amplitude of the program. You find upward compressors in some Lexicon units....and they rock. You can get more density on a signal without the most significant features (the peaks) being compromised.

Count my vote in for upward compression!
Thanks for clarifying this.

Cheers!
 

diggo

Member
????

\"upward compression\" and \"parallel compression\" are the same thing.
The PMB compressor already has this feature (and this is the main reason use it)

Sean
 

bmanic

Member
Hmm.. are these really the same thing? I thought parallell compression is basically what can be done with a wet/dry knob. Upwards compression should AFAIK involve a bit more maths than that. However, I'm not sure about this.

Cheers!
bManic
 

Sebastian

New Member
Yes upward an parallel compression are the same things as far as I know.
But there is no evidence in the manual how the PMB works. So I tried to find it out with a loop of a natural drum and a gentle pad. But guess: The drums have been compressed down from the top. I don't think that it is an upward compressor. And the mix knob doesn't sum the wet and the dry. (that would
be parallel compression or in other words upward compression) The mix knob is only the ratio between wet and dry. I suggest to alter this mix knob: 0% could be the pure compressed signal and 100% is the sum of compressed and dry signal. Or something in this way.
 

bmanic

Member
Eh? This is even more confusing. A wet/dry mix knob definately does parallell compression. A ratio of 50/50 is parallell, no? 50% wet and 50% dry is half the wet sound plus (the sum) half the dry sound, no?

Actually, what I was thinking of with upwards compression was Inverted compression that is in Voxengo Soniformer. My bad.

Cheers!
bManic
 

polygen

Active Member
while the general intention of parallell compression and upward compression is similar (increasing mean program level while retaining more natural dynamics) they are by no means *the same*. Just think about it: with parallell compression, you simply mix the compressed signal in with the unprocessed signal BUT the compressed signal has altered transients, which also get mixed in underneath the unprocessed transients. Upward compression on the other hand does not do this, it simply raises the output level when the input level goes beneath a threshold leaving the transients completely untouched (well.....they will subjectively sound slightly different due to the fact that their relative level to the preceding signal is reduced).
 

petersueco

Active Member
I think the term \"expansion\" is wrong used in the PMB and introduces some confusion.

I have a Drawmer DL231 compressor/expander unit, where expansion means that the gain is reduced when the signal gets below the threshold level. That makes it act like a smooth gate.

But in the PMB plugin the term \"expansion\" means that the gain is raised when the signal gets below the threshold level, and here we are definitely talking about upward compression.

Just my 2 cents.

Peter Holmquist
 
The difference between classic and upward compression is quite simple.

A classic compressor LOWERS gain when signal goes ABOVE a certain level.

An upward compressor RAISES gain when signal goes BELOW a certain level.

Despite the common prejudice they \"sound\" exactly the same.

Lets look at the pictures.

The original signal is a 1khz sine with a 6db boost that is seen on the picture.



Then we apply compression to it. Threshold is set to -12 db, both attack and release to 250ms.



What we got at the output of a compressor looks like this



Let's then apply the upward compression to the original example. I had to play with the parametes to get the result look like the previous picture. The threshold is now at -3db. And I had to reduce the output gain as well.



What we've got now is this.




The idea is that fiddling around with parameters you can get absolutely identical sonical results with either classic or upward compressor. These are two sides of the same coin. And that is the reason why upward compression is such a rare thing - there's nothing about it that you can't do with a normal classic compressor.


PARALLEL COMPRESSION is a whole different story.

The idea behind it is to mix the original uncompressed signal to the output of a compressor. Basicaly it's like having a DRY/WET control on a compressor. In the analog days the easiest way to do so was to insert a compressor into a spare mixer's bus and feed that bus from a channel's aux send. This way the original signal and its compressed copy are fed into master bus parallelly. Hence the name \"parallel compression\". Another term for that is \"transparent compression\". That's because this technique preserves much of the transient and attacks and sounds much clearer than traditional compression. This trick is also known as \"New York compression\".

The \"parallel\" method can be used with either classic or upward compression.

You can do parallel compression with PM or any other multiband compressor easily. Just use the parallel bus trick described above. The only thing to keep in mind is that the multiband compressor should have linear phase mode engaged. Otherwise you'll get a boxy flanger-like sound at the output.

Hope this post clears up the term confusion.
 

diggo

Member
And (when mastering) the results of parallel compression ARE often the same as the results of upward compression. The difference is that parallel compression is more refined with respect to control of the effect. With typical low mastering ratios and low threshold, parallel compression is the same as upwards compression. That said, parallel compression offers more variation, as typical upwards compression is not always suitable.

As Bob Katz says in his review of a Weiss device: Concerning upward compression, I feel that the ear forgives the raising of soft passages more easily than lowering of loud passages. This new software feature, also known as parallel compression, is engaged in the \"gain\" menu, putting the compressor section in parallel with the \"dry\" signal, and achieving an entirely different sound. If delicately performed, parallel compression can be extremely transparent, especially useful for classical or acoustic music. Distortion is reduced by several dB, since part of the signal passes through unprocessed. In essence, adjust the amount of compression by the gain makeup control instead of fiddling with thresholds or ratios. I recommend presetting the compressor's threshold to -50 dBFS, ratio to 2:1, attack to 20 µs, and release to 300 ms or so and leave them alone - simply adjust gain makeup to taste. During musical passages, the compressor section is in gain reduction nearly all the time. As the sound gets louder, gain reduction increases; thus the compressor contributes very little or no sound during loud passages.

Conversely, as the sound gets softer, the compressor raises gain because there is less gain reduction. By using an extremely fast attack (and the built-in look-ahead), transients are preserved, unlike the case with standard (downward) compression. The parallel compressor can be set to a frequency band, turning it into a dynamic equalizer. For example, by confining it to the bass range you can fatten a bass instrument, or to the treble range, which gives presence without making harsh sound at high levels.

Upward expansion, also known as the \"uncompressor,\" was added during a recent software revision, and in version 2.0, the range of ratios was made more useable. Simply set the ratio to less than 1, changing the unit to an expander. Remember to think \"backwards\" when using this feature; for example, fast attack times increase apparent transients. It is not possible to restore dynamics to hypercompressed material, but you can add more life to material that has been just a bit overcompressed. However, if overdone, upward expansion can sound as bad as poorly-done compression. For example, low-level passages start to get lost, or sounds seem to \"bounce.\"

Dynamics processing becomes a serious art when using upward expansion in conjunction with parallel compression in another processor (you can always get another Weiss!). Two threshold points hinge the material, one to give a little more life to crescendos and another to prevent the softest passages from being lost.

and, further comments in 1999 from Katz, Gerzon and Seva:

From: Bob Katz (bobkatz@digido.com)
Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 10:45 AM

This technique is designed to compress with minimal or no effect on transient peaks. Mix the source with a \"parallel compressor\" (which some people call a side compressor, but this term is confusing). The source must be delayed to match the delay of the parallel compressor and avoid comb-filter effects. To determine the delay, invert the polarity of the source or the output of the compressor, set the compressor's threshold to 0 dBFS and makeup gain to unity. Mix the two and adjust the delay for complete cancellation. This delay will usually be a few samples.
 

diggo

Member
and furthermore:

The parallel compressor should have a threshold of -50 dBFS (that's right!), a ratio of 2:1, the fastest attack that is possible, and a medium release, somewhere around 800 mS to start. Adding this to the (delay compensated) \"dry\" signal produces the upward compression. As the signal gets higher and higher, the parallel compressor is less and less in the circuit, until at levels above about -20 dBFS, the parallel compressor is at least 20 dB down. You can see how transients will be little affected by this more-transparent technique.

You adjust the amount of compression not by changing the settings on the parallel compressor, but rather by raising or lowering the output of the parallel compressor (or makeup gain), and listening by ear. You can also test with test tones how much the gain goes up at low levels to judge the amount of compression. It's so gentle and so natural that it is almost impossible to tell this compressor is in the signal path.

There you go, one small step for mankind.

Yves:

>Bob, I've been using this technique on the analog domain for years, mainly
>on vocals (multitrack recording); it really can be set to be very
>transparent yet effective. I call it \"parallel compression\", to distinguish
>it from the usual \"series\" use of a compressor.

\"Parallel compression\" it is. Good new term! Of course with analog, you're always dealing with the phase shift and group delay (if that's the right term) of one unit versus the other. Only in digital can you time out the delays to be perfectly timed at all frequencies.

At 9:43 PM -0400 8/21/99, DPSofNY@aol.com wrote:
>I was taught this technique about 1974/75 by engineer from London (Trident?,
>Advision?) and for me it been SOP for vocals ever since. I call it mid-level
>compression because it mainly compressed the middle instead of the peaks.

seva wrote:

michael gerzon termed it low-level compression. the waves C1 compressor already has this inside, actually, (so doing it again makes it even more-so). the compression law michael made (which we used again in the renaissance compressor) turns back to 1:1 after a few dB of compression; the higher the ratio, the wider the range of compression before the line turns back to 1:1 (only to a point, after which the c1 actually does become a limiter).

by putting a nominal ratio (as bk says, say 2:1), with a low thresh, such as -40 or so, then indeed it becomes an upward compressor for the low level information, and leaves transients untouched
 
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