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preliminary shopping list: opinions please!

lance

Active Member
So here's my initial shopping list. Please tell me what you think.
Sweetwater Creation Station Pro Tower
Samplitude pro
RME Multiface/Desktop Bundle
Mackie Control Universal
Mackie Big Knob
UAD-1 Flexi pack
UA 4110
UA LA-610
Rode NTK
Again any feedback is appreciated. I also haven't ruled out SX3 but I'm leaning toward Samplitude at the moment. Also none of this is set in stone so any advice or opinions are welcome. Thanks-lance
 

Radia

Member
Sounds wicked...I'd personally get a Presonus Central Station with the remote. The Central Station has a totally passive siganl path which is supposed to add no color to the siganal passing through where as the Mackie imparts itself onto the signal.
If you can swing it, get the Rode K2 instead of the NTK - it's a much more versatile mic with variable polar patterns and it sounds extremely good.
Samplitude rocks - you won't be dissapointed - Multiface II is on my shopping list too ;)

Good luck!
R
 

A Gruesome Discovery

Active Member
Can't go wrong with that list, although if I were in your shoes, I'd splurge more on a high-end mic. There's an awful lot of emphasis on preamps these days- probably too much- and a good microphone will make MUCH more of a difference than any preamp. Not that Rode mics are bad or anything, but this is a fairly high-end shopping list, and that's the only item that sort of seems out of place.
Also, you'll want more than one UAD-1. Just ask around. :)
 

Michael

Active Member
A Gruesome Discovery said:
Can't go wrong with that list, although if I were in your shoes, I'd splurge more on a high-end mic. There's an awful lot of emphasis on preamps these days- probably too much- and a good microphone will make MUCH more of a difference than any preamp. Not that Rode mics are bad or anything, but this is a fairly high-end shopping list, and that's the only item that sort of seems out of place.
Also, you'll want more than one UAD-1. Just ask around. :)

I'd have to disagree with this . There is nothing more important than a pre amp . How do you think you can get a SM 57 to make a great guitar recording . You realy cannot get a cheaper mic than this but see what you get when you run it through a $2000.00 preamp . In order to get the best out of any mic you have to have the preamp . How many albums that are great can you name were recorded with any preamp under $1000. ? Probably none
 

A Gruesome Discovery

Active Member
Michael said:
A Gruesome Discovery said:
Can't go wrong with that list, although if I were in your shoes, I'd splurge more on a high-end mic. There's an awful lot of emphasis on preamps these days- probably too much- and a good microphone will make MUCH more of a difference than any preamp. Not that Rode mics are bad or anything, but this is a fairly high-end shopping list, and that's the only item that sort of seems out of place.
Also, you'll want more than one UAD-1. Just ask around. :)

I'd have to disagree with this . There is nothing more important than a pre amp . How do you think you can get a SM 57 to make a great guitar recording . You realy cannot get a cheaper mic than this but see what you get when you run it through a $2000.00 preamp . In order to get the best out of any mic you have to have the preamp . How many albums that are great can you name were recorded with any preamp under $1000. ? Probably none
To clarify: I'm not advocating skimping on the preamps for something cheaper, but I do feel that a little more focus should be put on mic selection, taking into account the law of diminishing returns. My point was that if I had a choice to spend a little more on a mic or a little more on a preamp, the mic would win. I probably shouldn't have said a good mic will have more of an effect than any preamp, because obviously a U-87 will sound better through a DW Fearn than a Behringer Ultra-Tube-Thingymajig, but at the same time, a very high-end pre will only serve to reveal weaknesses in a mid-level condenser mic- especially if we're talking about tube mics here. "The weakest link in a chain" and all that applies, but from my experience I've found the order of importance in a signal chain starts with the source/singer and works backwards from there. YMMV, as always.
 

saemskin

Established Member
gotta agree with michael.
A great preamp can make a shit mic sound decent.
A shit mic will sound like shit through a 60, or 6000$ preamp.

No one said to skimp on anything, but one is obviously more important than the other.
 

RWIL

Established Member
The Big Knob worth any $ and more. I'm able to feed a Bryston 2B amp now and it sounds much much better against my British QED passive class A preamp. I love it! If a remote control is a must and an extra DA converters is needed for the monitoring purpose; Central Station seems to be another solution of course.

Mic/DI/preamp are another very important links. About the debate around which one is the most: I rather like to have a mic which sounds at his best because the use of a great preamp instead to waste a great mic's potential because a bad preamp. I know that my cheap Audio Technica AT3035 sounds at is best using my Great River ME-1NV and I 'm sure that in a blind test a lot of people could be fool...Still that I hope asap to have enough money to reach another level with a new mic.

Good luck,
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
Lance, you really need to tell us your applications, experience level, & already owned equipment, otherwise this list means very little (at least in regard to mic, preamps, & choice of UAD-1). From what we're looking at here, it seems ridiculous to get 8 line inputs & 5 preamp channels just to run a single NTK. ;)

In regards to Samplitude vs. SX, people generally feel that Samplitude sounds better while SX is far easier to use. I own both & use SX (Nuendo in my case), my personal opinion is the faster workflow is more valuable than the minor (if any) gain in sound quality.
 

lance

Active Member
OK the specifics, I'm new to computer based recording but I was doing digital recording on a Korg multitrack. I'm going to be recieving a grant for Vocational Rehabilitation as a totally disabled vet. When I was discharged some of my personal effects were lost including my Korg. Since I am now in effect retired I have alot of time on my hands for recording and learning. Part of my grant will also be schooling in Audio Production. I play vintage blues and know alot of talented local acts who would make great records if they only could afford it. That's pretty much my focus and experience. The gear I do have is: SM57, SM58, 2 MXL990's, 2 Presonus tube pre's and a AD-5 Acoustic DI/Pre amp along with lots of instruments. I plan to replace most of that stuff later but for right now I get a really good sound, that I can live with, with the 990's in stereo on my Martin going through the Tube pres. So for starters I figured on running the 4110 into inputs 1-4, the tube pres through 5-6, the LA-610 into 7 and the AD-5 or another DI into 8. I chose the NTK because the reviews I read were all great. I'm waiting to get other mics until I have a means to test them. In the near future I would like to get another LA-610, if I like it, to replace the tube pres for recording in stereo. Then maybe get another channel strip for different types of voices. I'm also planning to get a set of drum mics. I have a four piece kit so I was thinking 4110 for the shells and tube pres for the overheads. Sorry if I wasn't specific enough I was just trying not to write a novel. Thank you for the feed back.
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
There's no faulting your preamp choices, they're both top-notch & will also make for better DI's than 95% of the dedicated DI's out there (cross the DI off your future shopping list). My recommendation wouldn't be to skimp on these but instead on the other less crucial areas (Big Knob, Mackie Control, Samplitude, & RME) so that you'll be able to work on your mic selection instead. The Mackie Control & Big Knob could be replaced with cheaper (Behringer BCF2000, Tascam FW-1082, SM Pro M-Patch) or more versatile units (Yamaha 01X, M-Audio Project Mix I/O, or the Tascam FW-1082 again). At the risk of getting yelled at, I might recommend getting a Yamaha i88x instead of the Multiface for the time being, the i88x converters aren't as good as the RME's but it's still acceptable & has two well-regarded preamps on board.

Here are some mics you might want to consider:

  • EV RE20 (excellent on kick & male vocals)
    NOS R5 (excellent on kick & bass)
    Shure SM7 (one of the best around for male vocals, also OK for kick)
    Neumann KM184 (always a safe choice)
    AKG C451 (one of the best for acoustic instruments)
    Shure SM81 (one of the best for overheads)
    Sennheiser 421 (excellent on toms & electric guitars)
    NOS R2 (excellent on snares & electric guitars)
    Neumann M149 or Peluso 22 47 LE (perhaps the best all-around vocal mics available right now)
    Shure Green Bullet (blues harp, of course! ;))

Given the very decent collection you've already got, it seems for now that you really only need to address vocals, kick, & perhaps acoustic guitar.

Regarding SX vs. Samplitude, my personal opinion is that SX is a nicer DAW to start with. Also, at $315 for the Crossgrade version, you could use the money you'd save to get a top-notch vocal mic.
 

lance

Active Member
Eric, Funny you mention the RE20. My first album, my engineer chose it for my vocals to bring out the growl in my voice. I've been thinking about getting one to have around. I was liking the MCU because it's modular and can expand with me but I will check out some of the others. The RME comes highly recommended and is partly why I decided against a Mac(as far as I know they don't have any PCIe cards available) so I'm pretty stuck on it. I'm also pretty sold on the samplitude at this point. I totally see your point about easy start up, however, I have nothing else to do during the day but learn and practice. I just really like what I'm reading about it and I want the challenge. Hell, I had been planning to use Logic Pro. As far as everything else is concerned, I figure after my initial grant I can spend about $1000 a month for a little while to pick up odds and ends. I do definitely want a green bullet( I have one of those shaker mics but I hate it.) Also, as far as another DI, Iwas just thinking about being able to track drums and bass together but other than that I'm totaly planning on using the other pre amps. Any way thanks for taking the time, my wifes getting pretty sick of hearing about gear and my four year old just thinks daddy's crazy.
 

danilop

Member
For high-end DAW, I would consider TC Powercore as well; it has some of the best sounding reverbs ITB (classicverb, VSS3, nonlin, ...) not to mention MD3 mastering and Sony Oxford plug-ins.
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
There's definitely nothing wrong with the MCU, Multiface, or Samplitude, I just figured the money would be better spent on mics. If you see yourself able to add more mics in the near future, as well as more UAD & Powercore cards, then it sounds like you're ready to go.

To sum it up, everything except the NTK looks fine, just get an RE20 for the time being & save up for a top notch vocal mic at a later time.
 

Ashermusic

Active Member
I would pass on the Big Knob. It is not transparent enough and it is awkward to have the cords hanging out the back.

A well kept secret is the Furman SRM-80 Signal Router/Monitor which I am using. It is very transparent, solidly built, and surprisingly inexpensive. The only downside to it is that the remote doesn't control volume.
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
The SRM-80A looks great! The lack of talkback & second headphone output may be a big deal for some people but the passive monitor switching is a cool addition that the Big Knob & Central Station lack.
 

Big Harpe

Active Member
Eric, the Sennhesiser E609 is not only a great live guitar mic (and trust me, it is tried and true based on my gigs), but it also is as good for recording as an SM57. Killer guitar cab mic, trust me. I bring down the house with it, and reign as a killer guitar monster in the clubs, as Big Harpe should!!!
(the bragging is for laughs)
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
The NOS R2 will sh!t on your e609 & wipe its a$$ with an SM57. Yeah, I said it, so shove it up yer Big Arse! ;)

Now that I've completely flushed all my credibility down the toilet (ahem)...

...seriously, Harpe, let me know if you ever want to borrow one. I'd love to loan it to you even if only to get some comparison recordings out of it.
 

Sparky2

Active Member
After reading what Eric said about the RE20, it sounded like this may be the answer to what I have been experiencing...TOO much off-axis coloration has been my problem. Plus I seem to push a lot of low-mids...

SO I ordered the mic and I must say...very smooth and very smooth! I did some comparisons with my Rode Classic and I like the RE20 way more for my voice. More modern sounding, somehow. Maybe on softer stuff the Classic would be better...maybe. I even tried it on the acoustic and it really helped with the off-axis crud you have to deal with. Just have to eq a little more lows out. But trying to eq off-axis acoutics is just a waste of time.
 

Soundawg

Member
go with the Centrral Station / remote... u wont regret it... sorry to say but that big knob has soooo much hanging out of it, they should call it a big slob :D
 
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