QT Movie latency with UA plugs - Logic

[Blatboy]

Hey there kids... I have a question for you. I've searched the forum, and nothing seemed to have come up, so I hope i'm not asking a question that's been answered 100 million times...


I've been noticing that, of all things, my quicktime movies have latency when I have my UA plugs in. The movie runs behind the audio. I've especially noticed when I have the Plate 140 on a bus. I've not finished all my testing, but I do know it's exclusively the UA stuff that's causing the latency...
So, the first question is has anyone else experienced this? Is there a quick fix I'm missing here?

One temp fix that might work would be to use the movie offset slider... However, the slider moves in quarter frames.

That brings me to my second question:

How do you convert samples to quarter frames?

obviously that would be an annoying fix, as anytime I change the buffer size or changed the number of plugs I had in, I would have to move the damn slider. So, I'm hoping there's a magic fix here.

Any help would be appreciated.



w

Logic 7.1
RME Fireface 800
Dual 2.0 G5 singing the amd8131 blues
4.5G RAM
UAD-1 Ultra Pak

 

[Blatboy]

Bumpity Bump Bump Bump

I'm just bumping this again. Does anyone else have this problem?? I've done some more testing to try to figure out the problem with my quicktime movie latency.

Here's what I've learned from my testing...

1. The latency only happens when I have a plugin on a bus, not when I've got it directly inserted into a track.
   [/*:m:glkuib00]
2. The latency only happens with UAD-1 Plugins, not with Logic plugins, or other 3rd party plugins.
   [/*:m:glkuib00]
3. The movie offset slider don't do diddily to help the problem.
   [/*:m:glkuib00]
4. I think the problem is a new one. I don't remember this problem when I was doing films about a year ago when I first got the UAD-1. I first started noticing this about 2 or 3 months ago or so, before I really understood the problem. In that time, I don't know how many times I've updated Quicktime, which very well could be a source of the problem I suppose.
   [/*:m:glkuib00]
5. The problem was in Logic 7.1 with older UAD software, and Logic 7.2 with the newest UAD software. (I've tried the new lower latency setting in the new UAD software to no avail...)
   [/*:m:glkuib00]
6. An interesting little quirk of this bug... I was working with video that had timecode burned into the picture itself. While the session played in logic, the timecode on the parameter of the movie window (where it shows \"Position, SMPTE, and Movie Start\") was correct, yet the timecode you could see burned into the movie itself was behind.
   [/*:m:glkuib00]
7. The problem occurs when the movie is viewed internally on screen, and also when piped out to another screen via firewire.[/*:m:glkuib00]

This has turned into an EXTREME problem for me, as most all my work involves movies. Try telling a client thats coming to a mix that it won't be locked to picture...

Of course, there are ways around this... In one instance, I slipped the entire session later to match the video when I had a client come by. Messy. When working on a project, I suppose I could save all my bus plugins for final mix etc etc etc... but life is never that neat. I just found myself getting near the end of a mix, and I had already put a lot of verbs and eqs on busses. I suddendly get an idea to add some little percussion hits to accent some animation at key points. Now I must go back to an old, pre mix session, spot the stuff, make note of the timecode, and bring it to the newer mixed session. That's a big pain in the butt for some simple vibraslap hits...

The other obvious way around it would obviously be to use something other than UAD plugins on a bus. I can't afford that option right now (would mean buying new plugs) and would obviously rather not do that as I really love the plugs. I just wish it didn't have so many kinks!

If there is anyone who either has this problem, or has some ideas, (especially anyone there in UA-land) it would be an extreme help.

thanks!

w

 

[demonsp]

What does UA tech support say?

All I can suggest is: disable all UAD-1 plugs before making changes to the project then re-enable to go back to mix.
By using the on/off button in the UAD-1 meter application.

Best wishes.

 

[kyle]

I have a similar problem, and when i contacted support they said that it was not the first time they had heard of this issue, but nothing was ever resolved. For me, I can get the latency up to around 4 seconds if i pile enough plugs on a bus or master. If on a master, i can temporarily remedy the problem by turning OFF \"all\" delay compensation in Logic and just having bus compensation on. This is a bit of a pain because then i constantly need to change the setting back to All when bouncing down.

If I remember right, it was about the time I upgraded my machine to Tiger and switched to Logic 7.1.

I've just learned to live with it for now, but would really appreciate a solution to this!

 

[JuergenW]

Re: Bumpity Bump Bump Bump

I'm just bumping this again. Does anyone else have this problem?? I've done some more testing to try to figure out the problem with my quicktime movie latency.

Here's what I've learned from my testing...

1. The latency only happens when I have a plugin on a bus, not when I've got it directly inserted into a track.
   [/*:m:1pupmws0]
2. The latency only happens with UAD-1 Plugins, not with Logic plugins, or other 3rd party plugins.
   [/*:m:1pupmws0]
3. The movie offset slider don't do diddily to help the problem.
   [/*:m:1pupmws0]
4. I think the problem is a new one. I don't remember this problem when I was doing films about a year ago when I first got the UAD-1. I first started noticing this about 2 or 3 months ago or so, before I really understood the problem. In that time, I don't know how many times I've updated Quicktime, which very well could be a source of the problem I suppose.
   [/*:m:1pupmws0]
5. The problem was in Logic 7.1 with older UAD software, and Logic 7.2 with the newest UAD software. (I've tried the new lower latency setting in the new UAD software to no avail...)
   [/*:m:1pupmws0]
6. An interesting little quirk of this bug... I was working with video that had timecode burned into the picture itself. While the session played in logic, the timecode on the parameter of the movie window (where it shows "Position, SMPTE, and Movie Start") was correct, yet the timecode you could see burned into the movie itself was behind.
   [/*:m:1pupmws0]
7. The problem occurs when the movie is viewed internally on screen, and also when piped out to another screen via firewire.[/*:m:1pupmws0]

This has turned into an EXTREME problem for me, as most all my work involves movies. Try telling a client thats coming to a mix that it won't be locked to picture...
w

I can tell you the reason: it has to do with the latency compensation
of Logic Pro (since 7.1) for busses and outputs. I'll also happen with
PoCo plug-ins on busses.

To be honest, it's a bad fix... And this is another bad issue of this
patchwork programed latency compensation. (like an offset of
the visual automation also occurs while using outputs and busses)
I think anyone using logic remembers the times were we had to compensate
manualy... They did workarounds not to be blamed, but I expect no
real solution unit Logic 8 with a new audio-engine! :x

These are possible workarounds:

1) switch back latency compensation to "only tracks and instruments".
You can group tracks to busses but are not allowed to use UAD-insert
on this groups, as they are not compensated for latency. But:
You can use busses for Aux-send effects (Plate140) with additional
pre-delay of your buffersize latency in ms (like before Logic 7.1).

2) Try to offset the movie.
Keep in mind there is an offset of

(coreaudio latency)*(numbers of UAD-Plugins in row) milliseconds

to the movie (which means audio is later than movie). If you have
6 ms coreaudio latency with no more than one UAD plug-in in
busobjects, your QT is 6 ms earlier than the music. If you have
2 UAD Plugs in chain (busses or outputs) it's a doubled, 12 ms offset!

To calculate the frame offset it's for 24 frames per second=
1/24 =0,041666 seconds per frame
0,041666/4= 0,0104 seconds per quarterframe (10,4 ms per 1/4 frame)

Therefore it doesn't work , because it's too coarse!

Hope this helps! [/u]