Questions from a prospective buyer

[mustgroove]

Couple questions for you veteran users, from someone who might be buying the Xpander when it comes out...

1) Which plugins do you tend to use the most, and which ones have the greatest wow factor (this might be the same question)...

2) Is the Neve compressor a master bus kinda thing, or more on individual instruments?

3) Is it possible to have, say 15 or 20 Neve EQs running in a project during an offline bounce, or does the plugin limit apply there as well?

4) If you're limited to the small number of instances even on an offline bounce, do you find yourself freezing/bouncing tracks to get as much of the top notch plugins in a project as possible, or are 3 Neve EQ instances enough just by themselves to ?

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

1. LA2A, 1073SE, & CE-1. The Pultec has huge character but I think some of us (including myself) went overboard with it & got tired of it after a while. The Neve's, Helios, LA2A, CE-1, & 1176LN all have that instant WOW factor.

2. The 33609 is intended as a bus or master comp but it also sounds great on pianos, EP's/EG's, & acoustic guitars. Think of Keane's CP70 sound.

3. No

4. You can get a lot of instances of LA2A's, 1073SE's, Pultec's, & CE-1's out of a single card without the need to bounce so I don't run much else. The Duende is then used where I might otherwise use the 1176LN, 33609, Cambridge, et al, if I had more UAD power.

 

[Qwerty]

RE: #3 - Yes, it is possible to have 15 or 20 EQs running during an offline bounce, no the plugin in limit doesn't apply there in the same way as mixing in realtime.

Q.

 

[Akis]

It depends on the host, though. You can't do it in Nuendo/Cubase, but I think you can do it in Sonar.

 

[mustgroove]

For question 3, can it be done in Live 6 or Reaper at all?

 

[Qwerty]

It depends on the host, though. You can't do it in Nuendo/Cubase, but I think you can do it in Sonar.

Really?!? I didn't know that... Yes, I was talking about Sonar. What happens in Nuendo/Cubase?

In Sonar, if I look at UAD Performance Meter, the display just reads 150% or whatever as it does the bounce.

Ciao,

Q.

 

[Akis]

This happens because Sonar unloads all plug-ins when stopped, allowing you to add as many as you want and then bounce offline. In Nuendo/Cubase (at least v.3), plug-ins are loaded all the time, thus reserving DSP resources constantly; if you try to exceed the limit, the UAD driver won't allow you to load the extra plug-in.

 

[Stuart Stuart]

I never knew that about Sonar. Steinberg trumped again. I still haven't upgraded to SX4.

 

[Qwerty]

This happens because Sonar unloads all plug-ins when stopped, allowing you to add as many as you want and then bounce offline. In Nuendo/Cubase (at least v.3), plug-ins are loaded all the time, thus reserving DSP resources constantly; if you try to exceed the limit, the UAD driver won't allow you to load the extra plug-in.

Wow - I sort of can't believe that... Why aren't there riots in the street? No wonder so many of you guys are running 4+ cards and Magma boxes...

I take it, from your response that this is different in v4?

Q.

 

[imdrecordings]

What's the plus side to this? Isn't this mixing blindly?

 

[neil wilkes]

What's the plus side to this? Isn't this mixing blindly?

Good Question.
I'd also like to know the answer - how can you set up a bounce if you cannot monitor what you are doing?

Additionally, I stopped bouncing a long time back when the problem used to be non real time bouncing/exports could cause pops/clicks in file. Even though I assume this got fixed (Didn't it?), I got into the habit of not bouncing anything - just in case.

 

[imdrecordings]

Hey Neil...

As far as bouncing goes. I still have to do them in real-time. If I don't, I get a snap or pop here and there. I hear that computers with DUO core processors, don't need to use real time bouncing (alla: I've seen AKIS mention that he does not use real-time). I can't even FREEZE w/o a snap or pop. So it's almost like I'm dealing with a Tape Machine. BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE. Sense I'm doing stuff in 88.2khz and constantly bouncing in real time.

I hope my new machine (I'm building or in the works) solves this issue.

 

[neil wilkes]

Hey Neil...

As far as bouncing goes. I still have to do them in real-time. If I don't, I get a snap or pop here and there. I hear that computers with DUO core processors, don't need to use real time bouncing (alla: I've seen AKIS mention that he does not use real-time). I can't even FREEZE w/o a snap or pop. So it's almost like I'm dealing with a Tape Machine. BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE. Sense I'm doing stuff in 88.2khz and constantly bouncing in real time.

I hope my new machine (I'm building or in the works) solves this issue.

I'm almost glad you told me this, as it makes me feel heaps better about it all. I always export in real-time. It goes back to the times when we had to (tape) and I still use tape a lot because there is no plugin that can do what running a mix through my B77 HS can do.
Freeze? I don't do this either with UA plugs. I will tend to solo the channel, export it out & then tick the boxes to import it right back into the pool/project as well. I never did trust that freeze function for DSP plugs.
I sort of like to hear what is going to "tape".

Not gone to Dual Core chips yet - still running my Dual Xeon 3.06GHz here, as I find it gives me plenty - even at 24/96. The serious CPU hogging only starts when it is a multichannel mix at those depths. Both UAD-1 cards and LiquidMix start to crap out real quick at 96KHz.
I'll go to dual Quad cores one day - when N4 is released, and Vista is on SP1, and I can actually run in 64 bit modes.

Incidentally - why 88.2? (Just curious, as the SRC issue isn't one if you use Whole Numbers to go down to 44.1 with SRC like R8Brain Pro)

 

[imdrecordings]

Why 88.2?
Basically because I can't hear the difference between 96 & 88.2. I've been going back out of the pc, bussing through my Trident Series 65 & replacing some Software compressor/EQs for hardware, upon mixdown and then to the Otari 1/4\" 2 track... (not always, but mostly) with good results. Projects at 88.2 sound better than 44.1 to me. I'm still in the thinking of keeping it simple and use SampleRates at half or double values only. I don't think it really matters anymore, it's just a habbit. The way I do things. Also, Reverbs and other plugs sound a bit more natural and less digitized at a higher sample rate. It's hard using 44.1 sometimes, after hearing 88.2. :|

I don't even try and do my own mastering anymore (based on hair loss) and push every project I get, whether if it's a Band or Director, to send the product out for mastering. So that's my reasoning for 88.2... but it could just as easily be 96.... but not 44.1. Unless I'm doing preproduction, fast stuff. Then I'll use 44.1. The only time I've done 96, is for a movie that was sampled down to 48. I guess I'm stuck in the double value of things. 44.1-88.2 Audio or 48-96 DVD work...YMMV

p.s.- Neil, I think we just officially HighJacked this thread...! :twisted:

 

[Qwerty]

What's the plus side to this? Isn't this mixing blindly?

SE's to listen, real ones to bounce... P-Lim off the master bus to listen, on to bounce is how it most often works out for me.

Ciao,

Q.

 

[Matt Hepworth]

I'm still in the thinking of keeping it simple and use SampleRates at half or double values only. I don't think it really matters anymore, it's just a habbit.

You're right, it doesn't matter now and mostly never did. There are soooooo few things that ever used even integer math, that that division of half was almost a myth. These days every thing is certainly FAR upsampling (into the MHz range) and then doing the math there.



Back to the subject:

1) LA2A, Cambridge EQ (although a lot of people aren't liking it so much anymore), 1176LN on a kick & snare buss, Precision Limiter.

The Neve 1073 and 1081 definitely have a lot of wow factor, and some hosts will allow you to overuse the card and offline bounce.

I end up doing quite a lot of freezing on a big project, but not allways.

 

[djsynchro]

For question 3, can it be done in Live 6 or Reaper at all?

In Live 6, no. Also when rendering an arrangement Live gets stuck sometimes, and the only way to get a mixdown done is to resample the master to a new track.

Wow plugs: LA2A, 1176, Cambridge, Pultec Pro, Neve 1073, Helios 69, the phasor of Nigel and the Distortion of Nigel (for electronic stuff that is)