Room knob not responsive for Lion and Ruby

[Gufenstein]

Hi All,
First time poster! Long time lurker. Hi.
Quick question on an issue I'm seeing with both these pedals. I seriously hope it isn't me, but it certainly could be.

Problem: I don't hear any Room effects when I engage this knob.
The manual is pretty clear, and I believe I'm doing everything correctly:

1. I have the switch in Alt
2. I have a cabinet emulation engaged...not bypassed

I'm seeing the red (or green) blinking lights indicating the effect is not engaged, regardless (whether it is in cabinet mode or bypassed)...but I cannot tell any change in sound.
On the Lion pedal...I can hear the change in Presence, so that seems to be OK. Nothing on the Room.

Note: I am running out mono to my amp effects return, and then through my own physical cabinets. Is this maybe something that you only hear in headphones in your DAW?

I've watched videos where folks are twisting the knob and having a very pronounced effect (which is something I want to have)...and I just don't see how I'm doing anything different.

Thoughts?

 

[Mengelking]

If you’re in alt mode and turning the room knob and the lights are blinking while turning, then something’s wrong with the pedal. The blinking lights means you’re changing a parameter that isn’t doing anything.

As for hearing it through your amp cab, you should still hear the room verb if it’s cranked.

One thought I had: I can’t remember if one of the footswitch configurations allows for turning on/off the room verb? If so, any chance you’re on that setting and the room verb is disengaged?

Lastly, I’d hook up to a daw, audio interface, headphones, etc. just for good measure to see if you can hear it that way…

 

[Ron76]

• If you run your pedals into your amp, you need turn off the cabinet simulation (lights off on the cab switch)! The room setting is disabled then, as there is no cabinet involved.
• The room sound is subtle and the effect is audible through headphones and stereo gear. In mono, I think the sound just gets a little muddier. This is normal, it is not a reverb but a "slightly delayed" microphone to give a sense of space.
• It could also be that you start with a preset which has fixed settings for pan / room mics. As far as I know, there are a few of those on Ruby and Lion (i.e. "Modern May"). It could be that the dial is disabled here.
• In general, if you get a blinking LED when turning a knob, this setting does not have an effect!

 

[Gufenstein]

Thanks for the feedback! It has been a headscratcher for sure...

Well, it would appear I've solved one issue, but now I have a question on another! (geez...this guy)

In short, I solved the 'Room' problem. Interesting to say the least, and something that I don't see covered in the manual.
One thing I neglected to state in my original post was that I was running these pedals in 4CM. That worked well for what I was wanting to do.
As I was troubleshooting, I decided to reroute the cabling to a standard series configuration in stereo. The rest of my pedals from the Lion/Ruby are all stereo, so I figured what the heck.
Upon routing this way, I tested the 'Room' function as stated in the manual - and it worked like a champ for both of the pedals!
Even though I was outputting to summed mono through my 2 physical cabinets...the effect was clearly there. Eureka! I was hoping it wasn't an actual issue with the pedals.

Now, this is the 1st time I've routed this way...as I've always thought I would like the perceived flexibility of 4CM routing. When I had it routed in 4CM, the switching from amp pedal to amp pedal was a 100% switch...with the upstream pedal being the 'dominant' one if I had that engaged 1st, and a complete switchover to the downstream pedal when I disengaged the upstream one. It worked brilliantly. I could have both pedals engaged and just toggle by switching the upstream pedal on/off.

Now that I'm running in series, I've seemed to lose that ability. If I have the upstream pedal engaged and then engage the downstream pedal...I get a combined/mix of both pedals(?) It looks like I have to disengage 1 pedal, and then engage the other pedal to complete the 'switch'.
That is kind of a bummer, considering how it operated in 4CM. What used to take 1 click, now takes 2, and is something that takes more footwork when navigating between clean/dirty during a song.

Is this working as intended? Any options to set it up like it behaved in 4CM?

Thank you so much for any help!

 

[Ron76]

Hi Gufenstein,
that explains the situation...

First of all, there are lots of articles on the internet about the 4CM, and when to use it. Basically, you setup two chains:

A: Your pedals with your amp (preamp and power stage), with the UAFX pedal bypassed,
B: The UAFX pedal going directly to your power stage, bypassing your amp (and connected pedals in front).
By activating the pedal, you can switch between A and B.
If you want to use pedals with both sounds, you need to place them either in front of the UAFX pedal directly after your guitar, or in the last position of the effects loop. You can only use amps with serial effect loops.

If you intend to use both Ruby and Lion together with your amp and switch the sounds, it gets really complicated with 4CM. I would recommend using a looper then.

If you use the UAFX pedals in 4CM mode, the cabinet simulation and the room mics are automatically turned off! Because it makes no sense running a speaker simulation in front of an amp and guitar cabinet.
In the normal stereo configuration, the cabinet & room mics are on, but you should not use this when hooked up to your amp, so turn it off (LED off on left switch). There is no sense using a room mic in front of an amplifier, it will only make the sound muddy. Also, if you run a "normal" guitar amplifier with two cabinets, it makes no sense running the signal chain in stereo, as this is summed to mono in the end.

This way, the UAFX pedal is working like a distortion box in front of your amp circuit. You might get better results of the amp-style pedals hooking it up directly into your power amp (Effects return) but then your amp is disabled.

I'm not sure what you mean with "upstream and downstream pedals". Ruby and Lion? You switch your amp's preamp against the UAFX pedal.

Maybe a good solution would be to use a looper pedal (like GigRig G3) and place each component and also your amp in separate loops. This way, you can switch between different "amp" sounds directly and program presets. Especially if you want to use several UAFX "amps" and don't like to push two buttons to activate / deactivate.

General annotation: The UAFX pedals cannot show their full potential running in front of a guitar amp. Consider running them standalone with your pedals in front or after, then going to a power amp, FRFR, monitors or headphones. Their main purpose is not to be used like an overdrive in front of a guitar amp.

Best regards, Ron

 

[Gufenstein]

Thank you Ron for the thoughtful response!
You have hit on a few things I can clarify.
When I decided to test out a non-4CM routing, I did output my pedalboard to the effects return on the back on my amp...so nothing is going through the actual amplifier preamp. I agree you are spot on with going that route if only using the amp as a power amp.
Honestly, I'm thinking about just forgetting about 4CM as a path forward anyway...the Lion and Ruby (and soon Dream) sound so good on their own, I don't really think my amp will be missed!

As for the stereo routing - I have it set up in stereo for when I run into my Apollo, which is where you can get the benefit of the stereo signal. The plan is to use it for recording. I just have it in my amp so I can practice, etc. I agree it is not stereo coming out the amp, but rather a summed mono. Still sounds good though, just not stereo!
For the 'upstream/downstream' thing...I was just using nomenclature from my industry, so I guess it may not be obvious to all! just think of it as the direction a river would flow
For example: if my pathway (the river) is Tuner > Compressor > Distortion > Ruby > Lion > Everything else...then the Ruby would be the upstream and the Lion the downstream pedal.

So my question was - If I am running in series, have the Ruby engaged, and then hit the Lion switch...both pedals seem to be active and are fighting over each other. In 4CM that isn't the case. If routed that way, then when I hit the Lion switch, that pedal would not activate until I turned off the Ruby (the upstream pedal in this case). That was great because I could just have both pedals active, and switch between the 2 by engaging/disengaging the Ruby. Hence, the 1 click between the pedals. You could have all 4 amp modelers hooked up, and whatever the most upstream pedal is activated...that is the one you will hear. Anything downstream of that is silent until you turn off the most upstream one.
The way it is routed now, in series, it appears I have to turn off the Ruby, and then turn on the Lion to make that handoff. 2 clicks.
Hopefully, that clears up what I was talking about!

So, my question is really - is that supposed to be how it operates? It would be great if it did the handoffs like it does in 4CM, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Anyway, sorry for another long-winded post, but I appreciate any further clarifications.
Cheers!

 

[Ron76]

Hi Gufenstein!
Thank you!! And yes, I understood your setup and your wish to use only one button to alter the sounds. This is why I recommended a looper! This will take care of the problem.

However, I would try to think of the UAFX pedals rather as amps than using them as overdrive pedals. In reality with conventional gear, you switch your pedals but you usually don’t change your amps in a setlist. You adjust its settings and sometimes swop to other amps for different setups. All I’m saying is that it is not a big issue having to turn off one pedal and then turn another one on in two steps.

The 4CM is not a good solution for you, especially when going to an interface!! You lose the stereo option and lose the cabinet sound. Also, 4CM is not intended to swap 2 pedals in a row. Use a stereo looper if you really need this, to take one pedal completely out of the chain. But this will be quite massive…

My current recording / practice board consists of Lion into Ruby into Starlight into Golden into VOLT or Apollo. I connected each of them with 2 EBS flat cables, completely in stereo, and place my other pedals mono in front of Lion: Boosters, Compression, Drive, Fuzz, …
Yes, if I want to use Ruby, I have to turn of Lion. I get used to it, until UA figures out to release an USB-C-switcher to recall and switch presets…
Best regards, Ron