Should I sell my Groove Tubes 'The Brick' preamp

[Hemmick Reef]

I bought a Groove Tubes 'the brick' in January this year in the hope that it would sound better than my edirol DA2496 soundcard interface preamps.

I tried extensive tests with my groove Tubes GT67 valve mic (which I love) and SM57 with vocals, Di instruments and mic'ing guitars & amps. I wanted to hear a significant difference between the two but in my acoustically untreated home studio (2x3 meters which is my home office and cannot be acoustically treated in present state) I could not hear a great difference apart from a very slight clarity with 'the brick'.

Now I believe that 'the brick' is a good preamp for the price but in my home studio I think I could of used the money elsewhere..... I know that a good pre will help when building up tracks, but the results of the two preamps are too close for home studio use: many of my sounds come from soft synths and drum samples anyway.

It was a... 'I need to buy a reasonable budget preamp and hear the results for myself' ....sort of test, and I probably fall into the catagory of expecting a real WoW factor with this purchase!

I will probably sell it for something else whatever that may be to improve my sound, maybe a budget compressor........etc..........or cheap holiday?

I would just like some feedback before I put it up for sale.

Thanks

 

[MASSIVE Mastering]

A \"slight\" improvement in clarity is a HUGE deal. Especially if you're in a room where the difference isn't going to be easy to hear.

Start adding tracks and that \"slight\" improvement in clarity will quickly turn into a wall of clarity. In essence, you have the first \"brick\" in a wall or clarity.

Okay - that was a bad pun.

But seriously - The things that can quickly ruin a mix are the lack of focus and clarity that comes from bad preamps (or \"recording hot\" even with good preamps - If you're in that boat, keep in mind that 0dBVU is NOT the same as -0dBFS).

That lack of clarity and focus, while only subtle on a single track, makes an absolutley gigantic difference when there's 20 or 30 tracks going simultaneously.

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

Could you explain in some detail how you have the Brick set up? It seems strange to me that you're not hearing a profound difference between it & the Edirol's preamp.

 

[saemskin]

consider the possibility his ears arent \"refined\" enough to notice.
Hemmick: Are you able to hear any difference in .wav versus .mp3 files? What about a compressor setting of 1.5:1 as opposed to 10:1 ?

Dont be embarrased if your answers are no. It takes time for your ears to develop. Like the palete. Wine drinkers take years to develop.

 

[RWIL]

Like Eric said, maybe you loose something important in the way you hook up the Brick. Since the Brick has a XLR balanced output, I hope that you're not using the XLR input of the Edirol which has a preamp stage. You should get the best of the Brick using a XLR to TRS to feed a balanced line level input of the Edirol.
Anyway, maybe you already know that, but if what you are saying is true, something else in the signal path is really a weak link...

RW

 

[Hemmick Reef]

Thanks for the replies. Just to add some more detail and answer questions:

I use Cubase SX2 recording at 24bit/44.1khz, Alesis M1 Active MK2 monitors (which I like and suits the rest of my system and room). Some say that I should buy better monitors but I would hope to hear the difference with the Alesis.
I have spent about 5-6 years recording bits and pieces with this setup and was fortunate to get a couple of instrumental pieces used on commercial charity videos (in fact I used a soundblaster card for this). I say this to show that I must be getting something sounding reasonable from mr gear to put my experience in context.
The difference in wave to mp3 is subtle at times but depends on the mp3 quality. I can hear differences when using different compression settings with the UAD-1 comps.

I hooked the brick's xlr out to the balanced line level inputs on the back of my interface although I have in deseration tried the HiZ input and even preamp - not a great deal of difference

 

[Hemmick Reef]

just to add -

Just a bit off topic but when I use the line level inputs on the back of my Edirol interface the HiZ sensitivity knob on the front jack insert is active, and will increase gain for the back insert. The back panel jack is overridden only when using the front panel HiZ jack input. What is the difference between the twofront panel preamps on the edirol, the front HiZ input and the line in on the back.

In other words what is the difference between the HiZ (Front) and the line level (back) which both are affected by the sens. knob.....is this still acting like a preamp?

Sorry if this is a bit garbled!

 

[RWIL]

Good chance that the difference between the HI-Z or DI inputs and the others ones will be something like a buffer amplifier to drive the input transformer (if any?). However since the inputs on the back are affected by the front HiZ sensitivity knob, and which seems to be a level control for the first preamp stage, you should try other inputs if possible. Have you try the other input on front like 3, 4 ? An insert point could be a nice place to go if any?

RW

 

[Hemmick Reef]

It is an 8 ins 8 outs interface but I think the rear line levels are the ones I need to use, I can change the gain on the brick although sometimes I need to up the gain slightly on the interface for quiet recordings

 

[RWIL]

It is an 8 ins 8 outs interface but I think the rear line levels are the ones I need to use, I can change the gain on the brick although sometimes I need to up the gain slightly on the interface for quiet recordings

Well the only thing I found about the Edirol are little photos of front & back!
If the manual state that the rear inputs are line level, fine but I would suggest to keep the level knob from front at unity gain (12clock?) and control the recording level from the Brick's Gain knob only. Have a look also around the Win XP Edirol panel settings. Maybe you have the way to set different levels for the input/output and get a better match using the Brick.

RW

 

[Suntower]

I'll put on my asbestos suit but this is my 2p...

If you have no way of improving your acoustics then you're stuffed and all the pre-amps in the world won't help much.

If it were -me- under those circumstances, I'd get a relatively clean, colourless pre and then put the real dough into a really, really nice set of headphones --- if you're like me you need all the -listening- help you can get.

Or not... I've seen guys come up with great mixes in studio apartments the size of a large phone box.

---JC

 

[RWIL]

I'll put on my asbestos suit but this is my 2p...

That's true. The ratio price/quality is around the best on the monitoring side.
But please, don't sell the Brick to get them! You must wait later! (Who knows...)

RW

 

[Hemmick Reef]

RWIL wrote:

I would suggest to keep the level knob from front at unity gain (12clock?)

I normally keep it turned down anticlockwise to lowest gain, sorry to be a bit unsure here but is unity gain at 0dB. I am not sure where this would be with the knob as it just runs from +4dBu left side to -50dBu on the right?


Suntower wrote:

If it were -me- under those circumstances, I'd get a relatively clean, colourless pre and then put the real dough into a really, really nice set of headphones --- if you're like me you need all the -listening- help you can get.

Good idea. I have heard not to mix with headphones but I think in some situations/small rooms it can help an awful lot


RWIL wrote:

That's true. The ratio price/quality is around the best on the monitoring side.
But please, don't sell the Brick to get them! You must wait later! (Who knows...)

I don't think I will now from the advice I've had. I will stick with 'the brick', well I did buy it in the first place based on the reviews.

Thanks for the advice/support :wink:

 

[RWIL]

... I am not sure where this would be with the knob as it just runs from +4dBu left side to -50dBu on the right?

Don't know about the Edirol, but sometimes you can find a little notch around the knob as a reference for a line level input. Good chance that = 12 o'clock.

Cheers,
RW