Sidechaining/Ducking question

[imdrecordings]

Anyone here doing this?
I was using the Waves C1 sc the other day, trying to duck the Bass 2-3db on every Kick hit. I can't tell if I'm doing this right. PLease help.

Here's how I have it setup:
I send the output of the Bass track to a group-channel with the Waves C1 sc plug and then buss a send out from the Kick to the Bass Group channel. Waves C1 sc setup for side-chaining...

But it's not sounding right. hmmmmmm :?

Am I even using the right Plug-in...?

Electronica dudes.... What plugs would you recommend and how do you do this?



Please help me. :|

 

[brian]

What do you mean by it's not sounding right? Is the kick getting to the sidechain input of the C1? I haven't used that plug so I'm not sure how you need to set it up. Can't quite remember but I think you are using Samplitude right?

You might have to do one of those deals where the bass goes to a stereo group and is panned hard L, the kick send to that group is panned hard R and the C1 sidechain looks at the R input for triggering. Then after the C1 plugin you would have to pan the output back to dead center. Again this depends on how the C1 works, I really have no idea.

Just get an SSL desk and a patchbay though, and this kind of thing gets a lot easier.

 

[Fundy]

For a stereo Sidechain effect in Cubase you need to create a Quadro effects channel .

You are right about the group track, but ideally you want to to send your two input tracks independent of each other (use 2 child busses for each sound), so as they are not on the same audio path. Feed both these into the Quadro effect. If you change the routing mode in the effects box, move the two dots into the centre away from each other.

I'm not sure using 2 compressors is working, as the Waves C1-Sc should compress as well as sidechain when setup correctly. Monitoring the Sidechain should let you know whether it is working proper or not.

Another source of information:
\"The following example will use a kick drum track to duck/compress a bass line track:
1) Create a Quadro group (L,R,LS,RS).
2) Route the bass track to the Quadro group.
a) Open the SurroundPan window in the bass track by double-click on the pan-view in the mixer.
b) Here you must set the Mode Mo./St to Y-Mirror (By default it is set to Mono-Mix).
c) Set the grey panning balls in the SurroundPan window to 100% left and right
and pan it to L/R. This means the L-ball sits at top-left, the R-ball sits
at top-right in the SurroundPan view.
3) Route a send-slot of the kick track to the Quadro group.
(Of course you can route the kick track directly to the Quadro group,
but you won't hear the kick drum at the stereo output bus in this case)
a) Set Pre-Fader switch to ON (the \"at\" symbol).
(It is necessary to retain the control over the volume slider for the kick track)
b) Set the Send-Amount slider to 0 (CTRL left click on the slider).
c) Change the view of the send-slot to \"Routing\" (little window above the send slots).
d) Open the SurroundPan window by double-click the (now visible) pan-view in the send slot.
e) Do the same as in 2b)
f) Set the grey panning balls in the SurroundPan window to 100% left and right
and pan it to LS/RS. This means the L-ball sits at bottom-left, the R-ball sits
at bottom-right in the SurroundPan view.
4) Insert crunchessor in an insert-slot of the Quadro group
Start with the preset \"Club is pumping\" (or pull the Drive-knob to maximum)
in Crunchessor to see/hear the effect.
Choose a Side-Chain channel in crunchessor (in this case \"SC: 3+4\").
Leave the Crunchessor window open to see the effect via the gain reduction meter:
When the kick drum sets in, the bass track will be ducked/compressed according to the
compressor settings applied to the plug-in.

You can do this the same way with 2 mono tracks, although I think you could leave
the Mode Mo./St in the SurroundPan views to \"Mono-Mix\". Experiment a bit !

Addition: There's also another \"quick\" way to do side-chaining with Quadro Output-Bus instead of Quadro-Group:
1) Define a new Quadro Output-Bus and there 2 child/sub-busses (\"Stereo\" and \"Stereo (Rs Ls)\").
2) Route Bass track to \"Stereo\" and Kick track to \"Stereo (Rs Ls)\".
3) Insert Crunchessor in the Quadro bus.
You don't have to fiddle with Pan-Settings with this method but has its disadvantage in SX2
that you don't have further routing possibilities with the Quadro bus.
In SX3 you can define child/sub-busses also for groups (problem solved here).
If you want the description for Side-Chaining in SX3, go here:
http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=28660
\"

 

[imdrecordings]

Thank guys...

Sh*t.. I guess there is no easy/automatic way to do this...
It's going to take me a few reads to figure this one out. :?
-S-

 

[Fundy]

Typically sidechains allow two individual tracks one as an external trigger and one as the main track output. A sidechain effect simply defines what should happen to the in-track sound when an external trigger happens.

So take the bass and kick analogy:

Kick - Trigger (insert)
Bass - On track (track)
Comp/Gate - Controlled by sidechain (sidechain group)

What is happening when the Kick triggers the bass track is compressed by the Sidechain.

The Cubase method of the 1 audio path makes near impossible without re-routing. Only Logic, Protools LE, Samplitude and Reaper to my knowledge allow this to happen the above described way.

 

[Plec]

I do this ALOT, and there isn't a good way to do it that doesn't complicate matters. Fundys version is the standard, and I think the one using child busses is superior in every way.

 

[Awesom-o]

I do it the same way as Fundy, except that instead of feeding the instruments I want to duck directly to the quadro bus, i feed them to a stereo bus which then feeds into the quadro bus.

The reason is that if you feed a stereo track direct to a quadro bus, then the panner control for that track changes to a quadro panner and you lose the ability to pan the sound left or right (moving the ball left/right just changes the stereo width). Feeding the track to a stereo bus lets you use the normal panners for the input tracks.

But you probably want your bass to be in the center anyway, so forget i just typed all that.

 

[BTLG]

it really depends on your host.

in nuendo i think this is how i did it -

create stereo group track
send kick left (pre fader)
send bass right (post fader)
set the sc to L --> R
then create a mono output bus (as nuendo groups do NOT like being sent to nuendo groups)
send track to mono output buss


that ought to do it in nuendo

 

[Plec]

Awesom-o: That's why it's a good idea to use child-busses... you retain the option to pan L & R.

 

[Medway]

The free VST plug Sidekick does a great job of sidechaining without any of the hassles. Works like the TC Dynamics plug, just insert one instance on say your kick and another on the part you want compressed. The first plug will communicate with the second as if they were linked.

 

[manolito]

for sidechain I have 3 plugins for ya:

SlowSlimSlider
OtiumFX
Sidekick (though its not a compressor...its only ducking fx but its a cool one...)

those are what I use mainly for internal sidechain that dos the job good for me, try them out and see if thay works for ya...

Cheers

 

[imdrecordings]

Manny...
What are you sidechaining? Kick&Bass, Radio Broadcast, Guitars&Vocals?
Any recommendation as to which one works best for certain applications?
-S-

 

[manolito]

Manny...
What are you sidechaining? Kick&Bass, Radio Broadcast, Guitars&Vocals?

well what i'm sidchaing, hmmm, pads, kickbass, groove, sound manipulation , vocals( in some cases), strings, fx's and ANYTHING! (when needed of course) you have so many things you can do with sidechain routings...

Any recommendation as to which one works best for certain applications?
-S-

well its kinda depend on what i want to achieve at the time, but
to my opinion the OtiumFX & Sidekick+ are doing a great job to my internal needs, drums,pads and so on..........................................................

PS: the + in the Sidekick means that after i do the 'ducking fx' with the Sidekick plug I use one more compressor to stabilize the sound or just for the "color":wink:, depend on the material of course...

Cheers

 

[imdrecordings]

I have to stick this here, so I don't forget where to down load it...

http://www.twistedlemon.nl/site/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=1&Itemid=28

 

[Awesom-o]

Electronica dudes.... What plugs would you recommend and how do you do this?

I use voxengo crunchessor