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Speculation on new UAD platform....

Resonant Alien

Active Member
As everyone, I've been wondering what the new UAD platform might be. In the past, UA has stated publicly that they are interested in a portable solution, but are not big fans of Firewire or USB. This only leaves a couple of options: 1) provide a host-card/rack mount DSP box type solution. The host card could be card bus for laptops and PCIe for desktops, or 2) use Ethernet.

Seeing as how the new DCS systems are connected via Ethernet, it seems not entirely out of line to make an assumption that they have opted for an Ethernet-connected UAD solution as the next gen box.

This sounds cool - a rack mount DSP box connected with Ethernet provided with an integrated control surface - very cool.

Big question I have is whether Ethernet is up to the task performance-wise? It is one thing for the DCS remote pre to connect two preamp channels via Ethernet. It is quite another thing to think of running a 32 track mix all with UA plugs over Ethernet.

Ethernet is 1/4 the speed of Firewire or USB - 100 Mbps versus 400/480. Is 100Mbps really adequate for large mixes?

After seeing the thread about people using Wormhole and having latency issues, it makes me wonder, as this is sort of the same thing.


RA
 

A Gruesome Discovery

Active Member
The DCS uses ethernet only to interface between the remote control and the unit itself; no audio or processing is passed via CAT5, just knob movements and whatnot. I don't think ethernet is up to the task, especially going by frustrated forum posts I've read regarding the Waves APA and Yamaha's mLan.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
Akis said:
Ethernet can be 1Gbps, too, no?
True.....Macs have supported GigE for some time now - not sure about PCs. I guess if most PCs in the past 2-3 years have been offering GigE, then they could require GigE for the interface and not leave too many people out - maybe just those people still running 4-5 year old computers.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
A Gruesome Discovery said:
The DCS uses ethernet only to interface between the remote control and the unit itself; no audio or processing is passed via CAT5, just knob movements and whatnot. I don't think ethernet is up to the task, especially going by frustrated forum posts I've read regarding the Waves APA and Yamaha's mLan.
Yeah, but I was just making a leap. They could have used any kind of connection and proprietary interface just to connect the remote to the unit, but they chose to go Ethernet. It might not mean anything, but I was just thinking that it might mean that they are looking at this as the new path for UAD and they are putting the hooks in now - i.e. even though the preamp could have been done without Ethernet, they go ahead and design Ethernet in knowing that this will be the future connection option for UAD.

I don't know - just pontificating.

I would be happy with a host card/rack mount DSP box solution as well - at least that way you wouldn't have to replace multiple cards if the technology changed in the future - only the host card.

Maybe they could go WiFi !!!! :lol: :lol: (Just kidding of course)
 

Fundy

Established Member
Don't you need higher grade cabling for Gigabit Eithernet?

It seems Cat 5e. will work however Cat 6 might be better in longer run.
 

RobPain

Member
Resonant Alien said:
Macs have supported GigE for some time now - not sure about PCs. I guess if most PCs in the past 2-3 years have been offering GigE, then they could require GigE for the interface and not leave too many people out - maybe just those people still running 4-5 year old computers.
I think you're right - most PCs will support gigabit, unless they were cheaply built. That said, an Ethernet card is one of the least expensive add-ons you can buy for a PC.
 

ed_mcg

Member
GigE is unsuitable for isochronous (i.e., high bandwidth audio) data transfer. The issue is the TCP/IP stacks have non-deterministic latency characteristics. FireWire is the best solution for an external audio interface. Given UA's position on FW, the answer will most likely be PCIe based.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
ed_mcg said:
GigE is unsuitable for isochronous (i.e., high bandwidth audio) data transfer. The issue is the TCP/IP stacks have non-deterministic latency characteristics. FireWire is the best solution for an external audio interface. Given UA's position on FW, the answer will most likely be PCIe based.
Good point - TCP/IP is a best effort protocol, not designed for 100% guaranteed, uninterrupted content delivery - it's why streaming audio often glitches - OK for listening to an iTunes track - not OK for recording.

Rick
 

NuSkoolTone

Established Member
Honestly I'm tired of speculating. I'm starting to move on to other things. My excitement for the product has waned. I may grab one more card to round out to 4, but generally I'm done.

There's other things to upgrade to. New monitors, mics, pres, comps that would fill a nice place in my studio. I'm also up for a new keyboard workstation, this NAMM new ones are finally coming out. Between just the above alone, I'm really not paying attention to UA anymore. Unless they surpise ALL of this this winter NAMM, maybe I'll look at them again in 2008. Until then I've just lost interest.
 

lordward

Active Member
NuSkoolTone said:
Honestly I'm tired of speculating. I'm starting to move on to other things. My excitement for the product has waned. I may grab one more card to round out to 4, but generally I'm done.

There's other things to upgrade to. New monitors, mics, pres, comps that would fill a nice place in my studio. I'm also up for a new keyboard workstation, this NAMM new ones are finally coming out. Between just the above alone, I'm really not paying attention to UA anymore. Unless they surpise ALL of this this winter NAMM, maybe I'll look at them again in 2008. Until then I've just lost interest.
Sadly I agree....
I still hope but I doubt that UA will be able to top the UAD1.

I'll still be paying attention however.
Cheers,
DW
 

Koed

Member
Nowhere on the uaudio site is it mentioned that the DCS units use Ethernet.
It only mentions CAT-5.
This is just one of the types of cable that is used for Ethernet.
But it can be used for many things, like analogue phone lines or remote controlling analogue hardware.
CAT-5 cabling also has very good audio properties and is used by many audio hardware manufactures and hobbyists to wire up audio hardware.
I'm pretty sure they just use this type of cable to send propriety digital signals between the units and Ethernet or TCP/IP is not used at all.

This is besides the fact that the TCP/IP protocol is far from usefull for audio applications.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
lordward said:
NuSkoolTone said:
Honestly I'm tired of speculating. I'm starting to move on to other things. My excitement for the product has waned. I may grab one more card to round out to 4, but generally I'm done.

There's other things to upgrade to. New monitors, mics, pres, comps that would fill a nice place in my studio. I'm also up for a new keyboard workstation, this NAMM new ones are finally coming out. Between just the above alone, I'm really not paying attention to UA anymore. Unless they surpise ALL of this this winter NAMM, maybe I'll look at them again in 2008. Until then I've just lost interest.
Sadly I agree....
I still hope but I doubt that UA will be able to top the UAD1.

I'll still be paying attention however.
Cheers,
DW
Geez, you guys act like UA hasn't put out a decent plug in years and that what they do put out is crap. The only complaint people can seem to come up with about UA around here is that the card needs updating. Sure, I agree. However, the plugs are some of the best money can buy, so if you've got 3 or 4 cards, then just sit tight and stop this whining. You must still be paying some attention to UA or you wouldn't bother getting on this sight.

Sorry to be blunt, but I just get tired of this incessant bitching and whining.
 

lordward

Active Member
Resonant Alien said:
Geez, you guys act like UA hasn't put out a decent plug in years and that what they do put out is crap. The only complaint people can seem to come up with about UA around here is that the card needs updating. Sure, I agree. However, the plugs are some of the best money can buy, so if you've got 3 or 4 cards, then just sit tight and stop this whining. You must still be paying some attention to UA or you wouldn't bother getting on this sight.

Sorry to be blunt, but I just get tired of this incessant bitching and whining.
Don't know what you're talking about. No one is complaining about the wonderful plugins UA makes, we just feel that it's about time for a new card. I'm only being hopeful, it's up to UA to make a newer card or not. Of course I'm paying attention, like I said - I'm hopeful..... and not interested in speculation anymore.

On that note, I'm tired of reading responses like yours like you're tring to protect your insulted sister. I'm sure you don't mean it that way but it reads like that to me. UA is a company (not an entity) and they are big enough boys to stand up for themselves.

Cheers,
DW
 

contramark

Active Member
Resonant Alien said:
Geez, you guys act like UA hasn't put out a decent plug in years and that what they do put out is crap. The only complaint people can seem to come up with about UA around here is that the card needs updating. Sure, I agree. However, the plugs are some of the best money can buy, so if you've got 3 or 4 cards, then just sit tight and stop this whining. You must still be paying some attention to UA or you wouldn't bother getting on this sight.

Sorry to be blunt, but I just get tired of this incessant bitching and whining.
Being a very happy UAD user I have agreed with this viewpoint up until very recently. Im looking to purchase a new MacBook and id like to avoid paying 2G's for the pro. I think the MacBook standard looks poweful enough for me, however I cant buy the thing yet cause i need to know what platform the new UAD card is going to be. If its cardbus or firewire id be screwed.

Well at least ill have to wait until the 18th. Then i might just get the dang thing.
 

NuSkoolTone

Established Member
Resonant Alien said:
Geez, you guys act like UA hasn't put out a decent plug in years and that what they do put out is crap. The only complaint people can seem to come up with about UA around here is that the card needs updating. Sure, I agree. However, the plugs are some of the best money can buy, so if you've got 3 or 4 cards, then just sit tight and stop this whining. You must still be paying some attention to UA or you wouldn't bother getting on this sight.

Sorry to be blunt, but I just get tired of this incessant bitching and whining.
Nah, the plugs are cool. Can't get enough of them honestly. I buy another card, and before ya know it, I'm maxing it out! I've got a $200 voucher and have yet to get the neve stuff. Why haven't I? Well first no incentives other than to use the plugs, and I'm ok without them so far. I only buy the bundle, and hey $600 is a chunk of change for a project studio. 2nd, on my dense mixes (like 80 tracks) I'm using up 3 full cards. So in order to use the neve stuff, I'll prob need another card. So how much mileage will I get out of the plugs? Since NAMM is in two weeks, here's to hoping they announce SOMETHING other than a UAD-1 with a PCI-E bridge chip on it.

I was done specualting a year ago though. I'm tired of wishing and there are other products that are starting to look attractive (Like Duende). I've just got better things to do, and plenty of gaps to fill in my studio. So if it comes out great, if not I'll get by.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
NuSkoolTone said:
Nah, the plugs are cool. Can't get enough of them honestly. I buy another card, and before ya know it, I'm maxing it out! I've got a $200 voucher and have yet to get the neve stuff. Why haven't I? Well first no incentives other than to use the plugs, and I'm ok without them so far. I only buy the bundle, and hey $600 is a chunk of change for a project studio. 2nd, on my dense mixes (like 80 tracks) I'm using up 3 full cards. So in order to use the neve stuff, I'll prob need another card. So how much mileage will I get out of the plugs? Since NAMM is in two weeks, here's to hoping they announce SOMETHING other than a UAD-1 with a PCI-E bridge chip on it.
Yeah, I can understand that - sorry I snapped earlier - just one of those days.

I admit it is a bit frustrating not knowing what they are going to do. I'm kind of in the same boat as the previuos poster - I would like to jump on a deal on a Mac Pro next week when Apple announces the new machines ('cuz usually you can get a sweet deal on a floor model at the Apple store when they announce updated models), but I would like to know what UA is doing with the UAD first so I can know whether I am looking a buying 3 PCIe cards to replace my PCIs or if there is going to be a better option. If they have something better that is somewhat cheaper than 3 UAD-1e cards, then I might be able to jump on a Mac Pro deal - otherwise, I'll probably need to ride my G4 PowerMac a little longer 'cuz new Mac Pro (even with a sweet deal) plus 3 UAD-1e, plus replacing my IDE drives with SATA and adding upgrading memory in the new Mac Pro would run out to about $4k at least - OUCH!

Cheers.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
lordward said:
Resonant Alien said:
Geez, you guys act like UA hasn't put out a decent plug in years and that what they do put out is crap. The only complaint people can seem to come up with about UA around here is that the card needs updating. Sure, I agree. However, the plugs are some of the best money can buy, so if you've got 3 or 4 cards, then just sit tight and stop this whining. You must still be paying some attention to UA or you wouldn't bother getting on this sight.

Sorry to be blunt, but I just get tired of this incessant bitching and whining.
Don't know what you're talking about. No one is complaining about the wonderful plugins UA makes, we just feel that it's about time for a new card. I'm only being hopeful, it's up to UA to make a newer card or not. Of course I'm paying attention, like I said - I'm hopeful..... and not interested in speculation anymore.

On that note, I'm tired of reading responses like yours like you're tring to protect your insulted sister. I'm sure you don't mean it that way but it reads like that to me. UA is a company (not an entity) and they are big enough boys to stand up for themselves.

Cheers,
DW
Touche. Sorry about that mini-rant - just having one of those days - and forgot my rule about waiting a couple of minutes after writing before hitting "submit".
 
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