Sphere DLX / loud voice and saturation

[flandybob]

Hi,

I have a sphere DLX and I’m having an issue for vocal recording, not sure if it’s user error or something wrong with the microphone.

I’m recording a singer who has a very powerful voice. Recording chain is sphere dlx into a silverface apollo, neve pre in unison (gain at 30 or 35 so fairly low) and nothing else. I’m not peaking anywhere near 0db in pro tools.

I don’t really hear saturation during tracking but I find the raw recording not very clean, and I get noticeable saturation after processing (ssl e channel, a healthy amount of compression with 1176, both UAD) after processing.

I already recorded this singer before with other microphones (AT2035, LCT 440 pure, SM7b, beta 58) and never had that issue with similar recording chains and processing.

I don’t think I’m getting saturation from the unison preamp, could it be the singer is so loud he’s overloading the capsule? Should I use the pad? Faulty microphone? I’m using the u87 model in the sphere plugin

He was singing approximately 10cm from the mic at the closest and I never had that issue with my own voice (I’m nowhere near as loud as him) or acoustic guitar.

 

[Wiz]

does it happen with just the Apollo preamp and no unison with the voice peaking at around -18dBFS?

 

[Matt Hepworth]

Watch Apollo's physical meters — what do you see?

 

[flandybob]

I haven’t tested without Unison, and only looked at the physical Apollo meters during the last tracking session and it looked ok, in the green with the occasional yellow.
I will do some more testing this afternoon and maybe post an audio file

 

[flandybob]

OK so I really think it's overloading of the microphone circuitry, I will try another tracking session with the singer this week-end with the pad engaged.

In the meantime I attached a snippet from the tracking session from last week-end. On the word "way" and also "caged" at the end. It's not so evident in the raw file but as soon as there's processing (sphere plugin, whatever the mic model) and subsequent compression/EQ it becomes very audible, particularly in the high frequencies.

 

[UA_User]

OK so I really think it's overloading of the microphone circuitry, I will try another tracking session with the singer this week-end with the pad engaged.

I've got a powerful belting voice and run into this at times, especially with my tube mic which is crazy sensitive.

The "pad" buttons on some mics and such tend to sound pretty bad to me on a vocal.

For me, it's better to back off the mic a little on the really belted notes, and/or angle away a bit to reduce the pressure.

If the singer needs to eat the mic to give a good performance, a dynamic might be better.

YMMV

 

[flandybob]

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately my singing collaborator has poor mic technique and doesn’t seem to want to get better.

Anyone has experience with the pad on the DLX?

I guess we can go back to recording him with a beta58. We have good takes but there’s a clarity with the sphere (when it’s not distorting obviously ) that works really great with his voice

 

[UA_User]

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately my singing collaborator has poor mic technique and doesn’t seem to want to get better.

Anyone has experience with the pad on the DLX?

I guess we can go back to recording him with a beta58. We have good takes but there’s a clarity with the sphere (when it’s not distorting obviously ) that works really great with his voice

I understand.

Back him off further with a sturdy pop filter. Use hemisphere plugin to bring back proximity effect, where needed. If he eats the pop filter to the point its ineffective, put a second pop filter between the first and the mic.

(if the extra inches start to pick up room that you don't want, hang a blanket behind him)


Nuclear option: have him sing into a dummy mic, with the real mic further back. Say it's a special stereo technique that'll make his vocals sound huge like Meatloaf.

 

[flandybob]

OK so I really think it's overloading of the microphone circuitry, I will try another tracking session with the singer this week-end with the pad engaged.

In the meantime I attached a snippet from the tracking session from last week-end. On the word "way" and also "caged" at the end. It's not so evident in the raw file but as soon as there's processing (sphere plugin, whatever the mic model) and subsequent compression/EQ it becomes very audible, particularly in the high frequencies.

@UniversalAudio hey Drew do you mind checking the file and telling me what you hear?
I’m thinking mic overload but I’m not sure. May be the neve preamp saturation but it was on 30 or 35db so I think not enough to drive

 

[UniversalAudio]

@UniversalAudio hey Drew do you mind checking the file and telling me what you hear?
I’m thinking mic overload but I’m not sure. May be the neve preamp saturation but it was on 30 or 35db so I think not enough to drive

Could be either I'd say.

It's easy to test the preamp overload by making a recording with VERY little gain and then gaining it up afterwards.

The hard part with all of this is that recording a singer is one of the most difficult things to do. They are so many variables. Each voice is unique as is each mic, so the combinations are endless. I've put $10k mics on people and immediately took the mic down and was on to the next.

Also, trying to troubleshoot this on forums???? forget about it!!

Here's a pic from one of the shootouts. $20k worth of mics and sometimes NONE of them are it.

 

[flandybob]

You’re right. We have a session Saturday to re-record the two songs with the issue. I’ll just stick his beta 58 in front of him and put the sphere behind and see what happens

unless something is wrong with my Apollo’s preamps, the only variable is the mic. We’ve done tons of recording with a LCT440 and beta58 with unison preamps without any issue, most likely with more gain than I was using with the sphere.

 

[Chris Townsend]

Looking zoomed in at the wav file I don't see any sign of clipping. I also don't hear clipping even with added compression. The "caged" word does sound like it has a mild plosive which sounds a bit funky. I wonder if that's part of the problem.

OK so I really think it's overloading of the microphone circuitry, I will try another tracking session with the singer this week-end with the pad engaged.

In the meantime I attached a snippet from the tracking session from last week-end. On the word "way" and also "caged" at the end. It's not so evident in the raw file but as soon as there's processing (sphere plugin, whatever the mic model) and subsequent compression/EQ it becomes very audible, particularly in the high frequencies.

 

[flandybob]

Looking zoomed in at the wav file I don't see any sign of clipping. I also don't hear clipping even with added compression. The "caged" word does sound like it has a mild plosive which sounds a bit funky. I wonder if that's part of the problem.

Thank you Chris for taking the time.

I’m positive I didn’t clip on the preamp side. I’m with you on the plosive, but I still find the overall sound is not as clean as it should be.

This track is part of an album where I’m using the same template accross the songs.

Using similar EQ / compression as the other songs there is audible distortion in the vocal track. I tried backing off the compression but there’s still exacerbated distortion on certain words, which is why I’m heavily suspecting mic overload.

 

[Chris Townsend]

As best as I can tell the mic picking up what's there. I find that sometimes vocalists have a certain "harshness" in their voice and which can sometimes come and go depending on various factors such as hydration or which side of the bed they slept on.

 

[UA_User]

BTW, your guy has a naturally good voice, but his technique could be improved. Some of what I'm hearing sounds like the usual side effects of blurting out a ton of air at the start of a word or phrase.

 

[flandybob]

You are totally right, but putting that aside that was already the case with other mics we used and distortion was never an issue!

 

[flandybob]

Could be either I'd say.

It's easy to test the preamp overload by making a recording with VERY little gain and then gaining it up afterwards.

The hard part with all of this is that recording a singer is one of the most difficult things to do. They are so many variables. Each voice is unique as is each mic, so the combinations are endless. I've put $10k mics on people and immediately took the mic down and was on to the next.

Also, trying to troubleshoot this on forums???? forget about it!!

Here's a pic from one of the shootouts. $20k worth of mics and sometimes NONE of them are it.

View attachment 18422

I’m trying this next Saturday

View attachment IMG_4511.jpeg

 

[UniversalAudio]

I’m trying this next Saturday

View attachment 18432

That's what you gotta do....... everytime!

 

[flandybob]

Usually once I find something that works I don’t deviate, but vocals are a pain in the butt

 

[nickgcr]

Hey flandybob, I'm having trouble with my Sphere mic too, the audio just doesn't sound clean to me. When you say you use the neve pre on 30-35 do you also have the output knob turned all the way to the right, so +12db? I have to set mine to at least 45 db + 12 db output just to get a healthy signal with -12 peak at most. I even set it to 50db for more subtle vocals but it just sounds bad. Also i use the CVOX all the way cause the noise is pretty bad. I'm desperate at this point, I think my mic has some type of issue. I even tried switching the cable but it's the same