Time for a new mic and preamp!

[Akis]

Up until now I've been working on stuff that didn't often require me recording vocals, so I got away with an ART Tube MP and a Red5Audio RV-10 mic for whenI needed to record them - more than great value for money, BTW, but... well... you know...

Well, I just found a singer for my main project (I've been working on it for the last year), so it's time to upgrade my rig. Bad news, I don't have the budget I'd like to have, so that Neve 1073 re-issue will have to wait...

Anyway, I was thinking of getting an AKG C414 XLS-II, as it is a pretty much standard mic that I'll most probably never regret buying and probably an SPL Gold Mike for now (after that recent price reduction). Other options for a mic pre I guess would be a GT Brick or... whatever you suggest - please do!!!

I mix in the box and LOATHE pre-processing, so no full channel strips here, unless the pre- part alone is worth the money for good! I only need 1 channel, however, the reason I'm really looking at the SPL unit is that it's supposed to be really good.

Other options for my budget that I've found are:

DBX 386
Drawmer TS-1
FMR Audio RNP 8380
TL Audio 5050 Ivory II

I'm gonna record mostly female vocals (pop/rock). I haven't demoed any of the units yet (I'm gonna do it soon, if I can have access to them). Please post your comments/experiences.

Thanks in advance!

 

[chewie]

I would add:

Phoenix Audio DRS-1 (mayby a bit too pricey-or not...sounds fantastic!)
Summit 2BA-221 (great for the price, tube-solidstate option)
SPL 1ch Brick-type... (supposedly even better than GoldMike)

 

[Akis]

I'm afraid I can't stretch my budget that far to go for the Phoenix, although the reviews are raving indeed. The same for the SPL Gainstation. As for the rest, it seems I can only audition the Gold Mike for sure; Turnkey doesn't seem to have the rest in stock, so...

Re: the mics, apart from the C414, other candidates could be:

Neumann TLM103
Neumann TLM193
Blue Baby Bottle
AudioTechnica AT4050
AudioTechnica AT4047
BeyerDynamic MC834
Rode K2

Again, I can probably only audition the C414 and the TLM103.

I'm going to use it almost exclusively for female vocals. Any comments...

 

[Cat5]

I know this isn't a recommendation, but I can hinestly say the DBX 386 is the WORST sounding preamp on the market. The original Mackie even kills it. Alsom the TLM103 is a farce built of marketing hype. I had it, and got rid of it. I get more usable results from the MXL990.

The Rode is a good mic for the money. ...but the best value for money is probably the Audio technica AT4033. This is a sleeper mic. It sits upon mic stands next to U47s and Soundelux's every day. It is NO cheap condenser. Plus, with the 2micron diapragm it has a good transient response too. I will be getting a pair of these for my next mic purchase (after I get the R84 from Eric. I can't wait!).

As for preamps, why not just get a used Presonus MP20 and some Burr Brown op-amps. That is a very capable transformer balanced preamp (very quiet) that still sound good even after getting my 1272s, API, and Jensen Duals. The MP20 is a great pre for the money and can be gotten for a couple hundred buck used. The Burr Brown Op-Amps wuill cost about $75 for four, and they just plug right in.

The MP20 and a AT4033 would cost you less than the cost of hte K2 or the TLM103, or even the 414, and I guarantee the combo will serve you better.

 

[Akis]

Interesting suggestions, Shane, especially about the preamp. Have you tried the Gold Mike as well? I'd be interested to hear how it compares to the MP20.

 

[cheerful hamster]

I personally hate 414s on anything except drum overheads. If you really are just recording female vox, then you may consider a ribbon mic like the Royer R-121.

I don't usually use mic pres in your price range, but I've heard raves about the Presonus Eureka.

 

[Radia]

I have a K2 and can highly recommend it. I also borrow an AT 4050 from time to time from a friend, but find myself reaching for the K2 more often than not. I have also gotten great vocals from a Rode NT3 as well.
The only good pre's I have are a Joe Meek TwinQ (original version) and the TLAudio 5051. I prefer the kinda britishy sound of the Joe Meek more than the harsher sound of the 5051 - which works great on snares and beefing up my Pod Pro. JRR Eric sent me a list of replacement tube types that can soften up the 5051 that I have yet to try.

Cheers,
R

 

[Akis]

Radia, have you compared the K2 to the C414? By reading the diagrams, they seem kinda similar with that high end boost, yet the AKG is more expensive.

Also, how do you find the K2 sounds in rock female vocals? This one's difficult to demo, too.

 

[TomW]

Hey Akis,

just thought I'd add to the list the following:

DAV Electronics BG1 (stereo pre), should be in your price range...

I haven't used one so I'm not recommending but they get very favourable press and they have extremely good heritage coming from Decca so its worth a consideration for the ££.

Here's an SOS review, now while I hate to use reviews in this context (especially an SOS one, Hugh really is quite fair (most of the time!) and he knows what he's on about) so...

As far as female vox goes, I find most cheap condensers bright, Rodes (not tried the tubes ones), SE Electronics blah blah blah, depends on the singer..

Not really a fan of bright vocal mics on females so I'd suggest a cheap ribbon or two.

Maybe look into one of the new ribbons coming out from a whole bunch of manufactures or the ShinyBox ones....

Add a second and you'd have a nice rig for ac.geetar too!

Anyways don't you have access to a whole bunch of gear now?!!!

Stay 8)
-Tom

 

[Cat5]

I've not heard the goldmike, but I do still have my MP20. The Burr Browns improve an already good preamp, and if you're solder savvy you can upgrade the transformers to Jensens for $100 too.

Either way, it is a great choice on a budget, and it is slightly colored, but closer to neutral so it makes a good ONE PRE ONLY choice.

Yes, the Eureka is good too. The preamp is very nice, but the EQ and compressor are not my favorites. The preamp might be better than the MP20 pres stock, but with Burr Browns I like the MP20 better.

The 4033 is a great choice since, regardless of price, it will be a mci you will always have, and alwats use..regardless of other mic company.

 

[Akis]

Hey Tom,

(First of all, sorry for not having replied to your e-mail, yet... )

Yeah, I have access to some cool gear at the uni studios, but I'd like to have a decent setup at my own place, as well , so that I can record pretty much when I and the singer feel like it, without having to book some studio time 2 weeks+ earlier. Yes, I know, a few years back I wouldn't be able to afford that kind of luxury and I'd have to make do the other way, but nowadays you can get a pretty decent sound at this price range, so... :wink:

I was actually looking at the BG1 earlier today and that particular review as well, after I did a search at the SOS forums. I'll try to get access to one of these units.

Re: brightness etc., I think I'll take Kate to Turnkey tomorrow and demo what we can over there - I'll post my impressions of what I'll demo here, anyway.

 

[TomW]

Good man, no probs bout the email amigo....should have been all the stuff you need?

Good idea on the Turnkey thing, is Raper & Wayman still in town - that was always a nicer store IMO.

If you have a specific vocalist in mind you should be sorted picking one out.

Looking forward to your observations, just for kicks try and compare the cheaper ones to a U87 - I'd be interested in your thoughts....

Speak soon
Tom

 

[Akis]

He-he, as always, I'll be trying equipment up to 3 times my budget or more, because \"I may stretch a bit and pay the extra, if I'm convinced by comparing it to the others etc.\"... :mrgreen:

To be honest, I haven't checked the links you sent me, yet, as it's been a very busy week (recordings, mixing, gigs, classes, my girl came to visit me...)

Regarding bright microphones for female singers, I've been searching on this and found most of the singers I like use bright mics:

Shirley Manson: Telefunken E-LAM (couldn't find a diagram, but it's based on the AKG C-12)
Alanis Morissette: AKG C-12
Nina Persson: Sennheiser 421( )

 

[Akis]

my 1272s, API, and Jensen Duals

Shane, I saw some posts of yours at the Seventh Circle Audio forum. Should I assume that these pre's are SCA ones? Do you think it's worth going with these instead of buying a stock pre?

 

[Ashermusic]

IMHO do not discount the Studio Projects C1 just because it is inexpensive. It sounds really good on most female singers. And I have to say I have been quite pleased wirth my M-Audio Tampa although I would love a Millenia, which sounds fabulous.

 

[Akis]

I don't discount any cheap microphone, as the quality has increased rapidly in our days. However, if I decide to stay with a mic in this category, I must find a very good reason to switch from my RV10.

To be honest, I'm very curious to do an A/B between my RV10 and, let's say, a C414 or K2.

 

[Radia]

The singer in my band project is a female, the K2 sounds better to my ears than the AT 4050 in the mix and she also likes the sound of her voice in the cans from the K2.
I did have the song up for download (it's only a demo) but I'll try to put it or a snippet (might be running out of ftp space) of it back up.

Cheers,
R

 

[Akis]

I did have the song up for download (it's only a demo) but I'll try to put it or a snippet (might be running out of ftp space) of it back up.

That'd be great!

 

[Radia]

Elysium

This was recorded with the K2 and the 5051, with various parts of the song compressed a tad more with the 5051. Tis only a demo and is not really something that should be put under the microscope mix wise but it may give you and idea on what the K2 is like.

Cheers,
R

 

[T-Dogg]

my 1272s, API, and Jensen Duals

Shane, I saw some posts of yours at the Seventh Circle Audio forum. Should I assume that these pre's are SCA ones? Do you think it's worth going with these instead of buying a stock pre?

YES!!! If you are somewhat handy with electronics -- or are patient and willing to learn -- DIY is the way to go... I'm working on 4 channels of API... Started out knowing NOTHING, fumbling my way through and SSL Buss Comp circuit... but with help from some great DIY resources on the net I'm ending up with great sounding gear at a fraction of its market price... plus the satisfaction and knowledge that comes with doing it yourself! SCA offers a great way to get started in this, as they package everything nicely as a kit and include ample instruction...

Regarding the TLM193 -- I saw that as one of your mic options... Don't get that one, it's been my vocal mic for some time, although I never really loved it. By Neumann's own admission -- it's a "clean" neumann that doesn't really sound like a neumann...