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Tonex capturing giving me fits...

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
Hoping someone can help me here.

Here's my setup....
guitar into Twin HiZ
out to amp via Silverface Line 8 via reamp box into amp
amp into Torpedo load box into CAB M+ into Twin ch 2 via XLR

This works just fine via Console/LUNA to monitor/record

But when I try to capture, I get to the part where you make sure your signal matches the direct to amp signal and I was not getting near enough output to the amp to get it to where it sounds right. So in Console I set Send 4 to Line 7/8 and bumped the send 4 level on the guitar's input channel and got it to where it sounds pretty darn close.

But now when I start the capture, no sound gets to the amp at all... just silence. I have tried so many different ways to try and get this to work but to no avail.

This shouldn't be that difficult... I must be doing something stupidly wrong.
 

LouisC

Venerated Member
I don’t see where your Tonex capture pedal is in the chain - ?
 

ChrisMilne

The Originator
Moderator
Hoping someone can help me here.

Here's my setup....
guitar into Twin HiZ
out to amp via Silverface Line 8 via reamp box into amp
amp into Torpedo load box into CAB M+ into Twin ch 2 via XLR

This works just fine via Console/LUNA to monitor/record

But when I try to capture, I get to the part where you make sure your signal matches the direct to amp signal and I was not getting near enough output to the amp to get it to where it sounds right. So in Console I set Send 4 to Line 7/8 and bumped the send 4 level on the guitar's input channel and got it to where it sounds pretty darn close.

But now when I start the capture, no sound gets to the amp at all... just silence. I have tried so many different ways to try and get this to work but to no avail.

This shouldn't be that difficult... I must be doing something stupidly wrong.
Your signal chain sounds correct. What is your reamp box?

Do you get signal when you use the built in guitar playing loops? I have issues sometimes where i have to click that, then go back to my guitar input before it registers sound to the amp.
 

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
Your signal chain sounds correct. What is your reamp box?

Do you get signal when you use the built in guitar playing loops? I have issues sometimes where i have to click that, then go back to my guitar input before it registers sound to the amp.
My reamp box is the cheap ART two-channel one. It's always worked very well for me for general reamp purposes.

I will check what you are saying about testing the loops. Thanks.
 

ChrisMilne

The Originator
Moderator
My reamp box is the cheap ART two-channel one. It's always worked very well for me for general reamp purposes.

I will check what you are saying about testing the loops. Thanks.
I use the ToneX capture hardware set to have very little attenuation and that gets me pretty close to match my amp's real gain level when plugged directly in. I don't follow IK's guidelines to maximize the input levels, though i do try to set my return from mic/amp to near clipping. What do you mean by "Send 4 to Line 7/8 in Console"? I just take the output of line 3 of my X6 to the capture device (reamp box), out to my amp, into a Suhr Reactive Load (from here it goes to a cab for mics, or line out for DI, or in your case to the CAB M), then i just bring that back into an X6 line in or mic inputs (i have Hi Z also into an apollo twin Hi Z)...so pretty similar. The only trickery i had to get into was using my L22 mic as a single mic input on the ToneX setup page...though it turned out to be straight forward with Drew's help.
 

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
What do you mean by "Send 4 to Line 7/8 in Console"? I just take the output of line 3 of my X6 to the capture device (reamp box), out to my amp,
Sorry, "Send 4" should read "Cue Mix 4" which is assigned to Line 7/8 of the Silverface.

I'll digest what you just typed up and give it a shot. Just about to head in there now.
 

machinated

Established Member


Guessing it’s level related. I would recommend using your apollo DI with the gain at 0 for 12.2dBu of headroom. Then use the guides I made above to set your reamp box for 12.2dBu so they match.

If the maximum level you can get out of your reamp box is lower than 12.2dBu then you’ll need to boost the input gain in the plugin by whatever the difference is
 

ChrisMilne

The Originator
Moderator
Guessing it’s level related. I would recommend using your apollo DI with the gain at 0 for 12.2dBu of headroom. Then use the guides I made above to set your reamp box for 12.2dBu so they match.

If the maximum level you can get out of your reamp box is lower than 12.2dBu then you’ll need to boost the input gain in the plugin by whatever the difference is
Yes, excellent info!
 

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
wow thanks. i will give those a watch!
 

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
Guessing it’s level related. I would recommend using your apollo DI with the gain at 0 for 12.2dBu of headroom. Then use the guides I made above to set your reamp box for 12.2dBu so they match.

If the maximum level you can get out of your reamp box is lower than 12.2dBu then you’ll need to boost the input gain in the plugin by whatever the difference is
Question for you: In Console's hardware settings... should my Alt 7/8 (that's what I'm using going to the reamp box) be set to +4 dBu or -10 dBV? Wondering if that reflects your choice of sine wave output @ -10 dB.
 

machinated

Established Member
Question for you: In Console's hardware settings... should my Alt 7/8 (that's what I'm using going to the reamp box) be set to +4 dBu or -10 dBV? Wondering if that reflects your choice of sine wave output @ -10 dB.
+4 will give a hotter signal which is a good thing. but if you measure with a meter, and your reamp box has enough range, in theory you could calibrate them to the same value and remove that as a variable.

Typically most reamp boxes on the market don’t output huge signals so the higher the signal coming from the D/A, the better. most reamp boxes have a trim so it’s easy enough to lower them to wherever you like.
 

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
OK I've been sick all week so this kinda got sidetracked... I'm now thinking clearly enough to where I have a setup that worked very well for me.

I actually find that I get better results going into my Apollo via a DI box for some reason. I was having a very difficult time matching the levels out of my reamp box and the Hi Z input. I also have more fine control over my guitar input levels. This may be a result of my addled brain while I was sick and trying to figure this all out so I will revisit this sometime in the future. For now, this setup works for me so I'll stick with it until I have more time to figure it out with the Hi-Z inputs.

But anyways.... here is my procedure if anyone needs it in the future.

This setup requires the following hardware:
DI box (I used a Radial PRO48)
Reamp box (I used ART Dual RDB)
Whatever amp micing method you choose (I used a Torpedo Captor 8 into a CAB M+ in lieu of micing the cabinet)

I used the following software:
TONEX (duh)
LUNA (but you could just as easily use another DAW or even just Console)

Chains:
Guitar -> DI Box -> Apollo MIC/LINE 4
Apollo LINE 8 OUT -> Reamp box -> Amp -> Apollo MIC/LINE 3

TONEX Software capture settings:
IN/OUT Device : Universal Audio Thunderbolt
Guitar Input : MIC/LINE 4
Output to Reamp chain : Virtual 1 (this was the key to getting it to work for me right here)
Mic 1 Input : MIC/LINE 3
Monitor Outputs : MON L/R

LUNA Setup (or whatever DAW or Console if you choose):
Track called CAPTURE OUT w/ INPUT set to Virtual 1 and OUTPUT to A LINE 8 and input monitoring ON
Track called CAPTURE IN w/INPUT set to MIC/LINE 3 and OUTPUT set to MAIN

CAPTURE OUT is where the TONEX capture software sends its profiling sound stuff to your amp. Adjust this fader in the step where you get your reamp chain to sound the same as your guitar does when plugged directly into your amp.

CAPTURE IN is where the TONEX software captures the output of your amp chain. Adjust this fader in the step where you set your input levels.

And that's pretty much it.

To get a baseline calibration of my reamp box's output to match my guitar -> DI levels I used an external signal generator through the DI box to record a 1k Hz sine wave. I then looped that out through my reamp box and back into the same DI box chain into a line input on my Apollo. Next I found the difference in levels with the reamp box set to NO ATTENUATION (full level) and the original recorded sine wave and adjusted the fader on the CAPTURE OUT track above to compensate. I still needed to push this a little harder to get the actual gain structure to match by ear for some reason... need to investigate this further... but it got me in the ballpark.
 
Last edited:

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
That is indeed a method to accurately match. I use a simpler method to level match that's also accurate, quick, and repeatable. Some reamp boxes do not give enough, though. To make up the difference, if needed, an EQ pedal works as a simple boost of a few dB. In general, you'll pretty much never need to attenuate on a reamp box, but often need a boost.
 

machinated

Established Member
That is indeed a method to accurately match. I use a simpler method to level match that's also accurate, quick, and repeatable. Some reamp boxes do not give enough, though. To make up the difference, if needed, an EQ pedal works as a simple boost of a few dB. In general, you'll pretty much never need to attenuate on a reamp box, but often need a boost.
really depends on the converters and level someone tracks at - someone who predominantly records single coils at a high level, and has (e.g.) 24dBu or more D/A would probably need more attenuation than someone recording humbuckers with some headroom and using consumer grade converters which don’t output as high of a signal.

But yeah - you are right. I usually recommend measuring what the maximum level you can get out of your reamp box is, and then setting your DI chain to match that. Hopefully that has enough headroom to track without clipping otherwise you have to make the levels up elsewhere.
 

MaxTwang

Established Member
I have noticed when setting up Tonex for a capture that on the "Check" page I don't automatically get my guitar's sound even when "Live Input" appears to be selected in "Source selection". I have to click the play button for Tonex's recording guitar tracks then Live Input to get my guitar
 

MakerDP

Hall of Fame Member
I have noticed when setting up Tonex for a capture that on the "Check" page I don't automatically get my guitar's sound even when "Live Input" appears to be selected in "Source selection". I have to click the play button for Tonex's recording guitar tracks then Live Input to get my guitar
So far I have not experienced that.
 
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