Tough to Get Lion Clean (Even Presets Aren't?)

[okcomputer]

I did finally get a nice clean sound that I saved as my own preset, but I found it a bit more difficult than I would have thought.

I just loaded up the Moonish Clean and D120 Clean Jam presets and they both distort... I'm running into my Focusrite Scarlett with the gain at 0 and headphones out with direct monitoring and even turning down the output doesn't clean it up.

Attached is an mp3 where I play the same riff through Moonish Clean and then my clean preset.

 

[Rainflower]

did you try to pull your guitar volume back a little? that usually works on the real thing, as it should be the same on this pedal. this even works on the higher gain presets, when you pull the volume on the guitar it can get chimey…when set up the right way.

 

[klasaine]

Caveat up front; none of my guitars have 'high' output pkups.

I find the lion to be the cleanest of the bunch.
Forget the presets.
Use the Super Bass model.
Have both ch. volumes at 9:00 or lower.
Master volume just below 'all the way up'.
Boost 'off'.

And, as Rainflower mentions, dial back the guitar volume just a number or two.

 

[okcomputer]

Caveat up front; none of my guitars have 'high' output pkups.

I find the lion to be the cleanest of the bunch.
Forget the presets.
Use the Super Bass model.
Have both ch. volumes at 9:00 or lower.
Master volume just below 'all the way up'.
Boost 'off'.

And, as Rainflower mentions, dial back the guitar volume just a number or two.

Haha ok. Yep, that's basically what my preset is!

Dialling back definitely cleans some stuff up, but I'm kind of annoyed that the two presets they packed in that specifically say "clean" are... not. Lol.

 

[klasaine]

I'm kind of annoyed that the two presets they packed in that specifically say "clean" are... not. Lol.

I agree.
Clean is relative thing. When I say "clean", I mean clean.

 

[swaite]

I’ve been using the Lion with the Waterwheel plugin and recreating classic 70s Leslie rock guitar tones.
Heavenly!

 

[Digiplay]

Caveat up front; none of my guitars have 'high' output pkups.

I find the lion to be the cleanest of the bunch.
Forget the presets.
Use the Super Bass model.
Have both ch. volumes at 9:00 or lower.
Master volume just below 'all the way up'.
Boost 'off'.

And, as Rainflower mentions, dial back the guitar volume just a number or two.

Are you saying the Lion is cleaner than the Dream, Ruby, and Woodrow klasaine?

If so, does that mean you believe the Lion is the best pedal platform out of the four?

 

[klasaine]

Are you saying the Lion is cleaner than the Dream, Ruby, and Woodrow klasaine?

If so, does that mean you believe the Lion is the best pedal platform out of the four?

Caveat up front ...
My observations are based on my rigs and my experience.

The Lion can definitely get cleaner than the Ruby and Woodrow. It's a toss up as far as the Dream is concerned. I say that because the Dream can be sparkly Fender clean but you will need to bump up your interface's volume and/or use a mic pre, either hardware or software. *I use one of the UA pres all the time. The cleanest is the API stand-alone mic pre.

Now having said all that, "clean", in the world's of Fender, Vox, and Marshall, isn't really that clean at all. Any amp with tubes, especially 6v6, el84, and el34 tubes is never pristine clean. Put your ear right up to a DR or an AC30 or a 50s Tweed on 3 and tell me what you hear. The only tube amps that can approach actual clean are going to be the 100 watters. You want to hear tube clean, you need to play through a Hi-Watt, Sound City, or the modern 100 watt Diezels or Engls. A SF Twin and Mesa Boogie Road King can be pretty clean as well. I'm sure there are others. You need at least 75 watts into 4 pwr tubes, capable transformers and preferably a SS rectifier. Spkrs are a huge component as well. Ceramic magnets are preferred. *This is all general.

So, is the Lion the best pedal platform? I don't know. What type of "clean" do you like?
Marshall clean is "in my words" fast and relatively flat (eq wise). Fender and Vox have a bit of sag and the eq is quite different.

 

[LesBrown]

FWIW, I bought the Lion primarily for the cleans after watching some demo videos. I also have Ruby and Dream, but I find the Lion to be 'cleaner'.

 

[Vondragonnoggin]

I found it was cleaner on Super Bass model also if you change input to Y cable on low bright and normal inputs instead of high input. You may be able to get away with jumpered better also. I almost never change to jumpered input though. Either Y cable in high or Y cable in low.

 

[klasaine]

I’m convinced that the amp sims that are supposedly modeling tube amps but are dead clean, are a response to the folks that notice that the real DR and AC emulations have hair on them - and don’t like it. Companies like Neural and Mixwave are adapting to the market place. I have no issue with that. That’s what businesses do.

I do however find it ironic that with everything else we record now in this digital age, we’re constantly trying to dirty it up. You know - “analog”. The sheer number of saturation and tape plugins (and hardware) is mind boggling. Not too mention just how dirty recorded vocals, keyboards, drums, bass, and even the full mix has gotten. Not only that but now digital and converter clipping is cool. Again, I personally have no problem with any of it. I like it!
I just find it amusing, that in the case of the electric guitar and a tube amp - arguably the most distorted pairing in the history of music … now folks wanna make it ‘clean’. We haven’t come full circle, we’re at a beginning that never was.

Anyway, those are my musings for this first day of 2024.
Happy New Year!

 

[LesBrown]

Another option for a truly 'clean' guitar sound is bypassing the amp and going straight in Hi-Z. If you really want to hear the tone of your guitar and pickups ONLY, that's one way to go. Add pre-amp or channel strip in Unison, or not, as desired.

 

[Gary D]

Another option for a truly 'clean' guitar sound is bypassing the amp and going straight in Hi-Z. If you really want to hear the tone of your guitar and pickups ONLY, that's one way to go. Add pre-amp or channel strip in Unison, or not, as desired.

A really useful and overlooked option. Many a well known recorded clean tone ( and the odd gnarly one ) has been achieved by going straight into the desk.

 

[klasaine]

I haven't tried it with Lion yet, but another time honored "clean" trick is to put a Germanium fuzz in front of the amp. Crank the output but keep the fuzz relatively sane and back off the guitar's volume. You can get super sparkly doing this.

 

[exoslime]

I haven't tried it with Lion yet, but another time honored "clean" trick is to put a Germanium fuzz in front of the amp. Crank the output but keep the fuzz relatively sane and back off the guitar's volume. You can get super sparkly doing this.

thats a great tip! i actually do this sometimes with a Friedman Fuzz Fiend in Front of my Kemper, i set the Fuzz very low, roll back the volume on the guitar and the fuzz fiend adds some nice compression and evenness to the sound, especially for single coils and p90, but also works great with humbuckers when you have the treble bleed mod done

 

[exoslime]

Another option for a truly 'clean' guitar sound is bypassing the amp and going straight in Hi-Z. If you really want to hear the tone of your guitar and pickups ONLY, that's one way to go. Add pre-amp or channel strip in Unison, or not, as desired.

try this with the DBX160 compressor in the UA Console, sounds amazing on the guitar DI track and lots of fun playing
add some EQ on top of it and a nice reverb in the AUX channel

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

I’m convinced that the amp sims that are supposedly modeling tube amps but are dead clean, are a response to the folks that notice that the real DR and AC emulations have hair on them - and don’t like it. Companies like Neural and Mixwave are adapting to the market place. I have no issue with that. That’s what businesses do.

I think it's a generational thing. My millennial employees used to record their AC15's super clean. They liked how it let all their dynamics to come through. It sounded pokey to me but I'm old and not the target audience.

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

try this with the DBX160 compressor in the UA Console, sounds amazing on the guitar DI track and lots of fun playing
add some EQ on top of it and a nice reverb in the AUX channel

Also try following it up with a Brainworx amp with the preamp and power amp sections turned off, basically only using it as a speaker emulator/noise gate/filter.

 

[jaeger28]

Woodrow, Dream and Ruby emulate amps with 12-30W, the Superleads/Superbass of Lion are 100W, so there is way more clean headroom than in the other 3. And I think it is really clean and punchy at that. I do use "normal" output pickups though, none higher than 12KOhm or so

 

[Medronio]

As far as i understand this thread UA has done a very good job on modelling old Marshalls.
I have quite some experience with NMV and MV amps from the 70s (1959 and 2203/2204 models) and can confirm some of the tipps written above.
Old Marshalls are very sensitive to input gain and thats where the fun comes from imo. They react to the guitars volume knob like an external gain adjustment. If you want clean, you have different option:

1) Adjust the amp for your dirt sound with the guitars` volume on 10 and than simply roll back your guitars volume knob. If the amp has a bright cap, it will retain the sparly highs better.
2) Use a different input on the amp. Both of the low inputs, treble and normal side, are -6db inputs. So every signal coming in doesn`t drive the input stage of the amp that hard and results in less distortion (and less volume). Therefore you get much cleaner sounds while still being freaking loud ... you know 100 Watt Marshalls For the 2203 Mastervolume amps the same applies. Actually i find the low input on 2203 (2 holer) gives me the nicest cleans of any amp i`ve ever had.
So try to experiment with the inputrouting in the app!

Also the different combinations of patching the inputs does wonders. Here is how i do it on my 76 100 Watter if i want a straight rock tone:

I use a patch cable going from treble input 2 (low) to normal input 1 (high). Than i plug my guitar cable into Treble input 1 (high).
With guitar at volume 9 (smidge below max) i adjust my tone with the volume controls on the amp. i.e. turn treble volume up to 7 for example and than add some missing bass by turning up the normal volume pot to taste. Usually i end up with treble volume at 7 and normal volume between 4 and 6 depending on the guitar. Than i adjust the eq on the amp and most important the presence. Thats how i set up my old 70s Marshalls.
Guitar at volume 8 gives me restrained rock tone for verse, guitarvolume on 9 adds distortion and volume for chorus and on 10 (plus Boss SD1 and delay pedal) gives great solo tones. If i want to go clean i lower the guitar volume by ear, maybe to 3-5.

My post got a bit out of hand but i hope it helps tuning your pedal to your taste.