Trying to understand routing of compression -> Logic Pro

[addmultiplier]

I just bought my first Apollo Twin Duo and am trying to understand a few things.

From what I've always understood, a compressor goes after the amp to tame the transients which I've always done accordingly in Logic. But in Console, you're sort of forced to apply UAD's compressors before it gets to Logic's amp sims. Does the order matter or am I misunderstanding?

Or should I just be using UAD's compressor plugins within Logic itself instead of Console? My understanding is the Console reduces potential latency issues. I have a fairly new Mac Mini M2 which is very fast... does that mitigate the need for using Console?

One final question — when I've used the UA 1176 plugin, the VU meter doesn't tend to move unless I push up the Input a bit. What is the general range I should be shooting for in the meter for quiet clean electric guitar played in ambient music for example?

 

[LesBrown]

From what I've always understood, a compressor goes after the amp to tame the transients which I've always done accordingly in Logic. But in Console, you're sort of forced to apply UAD's compressors before it gets to Logic's amp sims. Does the order matter or am I misunderstanding?

One or the other, neither or both. I run the UADx 1176 compressor pedal as the first pedal in my chain (after the tuner,) then other pedals, to amp (UADx) pedal, then to Apollo. I usually record through the Helios pre-amp/EQ in the Unison slot.

So my chain is usually something like compressor -> other guitar effects pedals -> guitar amp/mic pedal -> Helios pre-amp/EQ -> DAW. Depending on the sound I'm going for, I might add a compressor after the pre-amp, or record through a channel strip that includes a compressor, for instance API Vision Console.

What is the general range I should be shooting for in the meter for quiet clean electric guitar played in ambient music for example?

My answer is: Whatever sounds best. It depends on your guitar, pickups, which pickup(s) are recorded, how much they are turned up on the guitar, your playing style, the sound you are going for, etc.; and there are no hard/fast rules for every situation. Maybe someone else has a better answer to give you a general setting to target, but that 'target' might not be the best settings depending on the variables I listed. You might want to try some of the guitar presets on the 1176 and see which ones sound closest to the sound(s) you are going for. You can how those presets are set and hear the sound that results.

 

[klasaine]

I kinda do the same as Les.
Pedal comp (a lot of the time) before my amp/emulator/plugin and then if I need it, I’ll add more compression in post in the daw.
Since I use Luna, I will usually print a touch of comp (176) when I’m using a plugin.
I generally tread pretty lightly with my compression.

Having said all that - there are no rules. Do whatever works best for the track.

 

[addmultiplier]

You might want to try some of the guitar presets on the 1176 and see which ones sound closest to the sound(s) you are going for. You can how those presets are set and hear the sound that results.

Thanks, I actually did take the 1176's standard Electric Guitar preset and did a "Save as..." so I can customize it. But by default, the needle doesn't move when I play through it so I've been playing with the input signal. In the past with Logic's native compressor, I've generally aimed for somewhere between -3 -> -6db. But the VU meter here is new to me so I wasn't sure. At the moment I'm using my ears and it's sounding pretty good. Although in a blind listening test, I'm not sure I could tell you why a $200 UAD compressor is better than the native Logic compressor...

 

[addmultiplier]

"Or should I just be using UAD's compressor plugins within Logic itself instead of Console?"

Any feedback about this part? Theoretically I would love to just do everything in Logic rather than always toggling back and forth between Logic and Console. But is there any disadvantage to just using the compressor plugin in Logic (plus then I can tweak it after the fact in Logic if I want to).

 

[LesBrown]

"Or should I just be using UAD's compressor plugins within Logic itself instead of Console?"

Any feedback about this part? Theoretically I would love to just do everything in Logic rather than always toggling back and forth between Logic and Console. But is there any disadvantage to just using the compressor plugin in Logic (plus then I can tweak it after the fact in Logic if I want to).

I don't use Console at all except for recording audio in Logic. When I record audio in Logic, I use plugins in Console for low latency recording through pre-amp and/or eq, compression, etc. After recording is done in Logic, I remove the plugins in Console and work entirely in Logic.

That said, most of the time I record audio into Luna and don't worry about Console. I usually only use Logic for a sketch pad, and for more complex midi editing. But everything ends up in Luna.

 

[MaxTwang]

I use plugins in Console if they're placed before the DAW and I want to record that effect. I tend to use native versions if they come after something in a DAW. In OP's situation I might use the 1176 in Console for compression before the amp sim and I'd use the native UAD 1176 after the amp sim but would likely bypass it to record a track then apply it in mixing.

I could be wrong but native "feels" like less latency once you're in the DAW (no round trip to Apollo's processing from the DAW), but this only matters with real-time playing like guitar amp sims.

 

[slamthecrank]

"Or should I just be using UAD's compressor plugins within Logic itself instead of Console?"

Any feedback about this part? Theoretically I would love to just do everything in Logic rather than always toggling back and forth between Logic and Console. But is there any disadvantage to just using the compressor plugin in Logic (plus then I can tweak it after the fact in Logic if I want to).

Seems like you might be a little confused as to what Logic and Console are actually doing. I don't mean this in a condescending way, so please take it as an "I'm just trying to help" scenario... but have you read the manual(s)? Particularly the UAD manuals will be very helpful for you.

But for simplicity sake:
-- "Console" app is an output only console that is used during tracking/recording. It outputs to whatever DAW you are using (in your case, that is Logic). Any effects that you use in Console during tracking/recording can be permanently printed onto the audio (with the UAD REC button engaged) or used only for listening while tracking/recording (with the UAD REC button not engaged). Once you've recorded, you'll do everything else in Logic.

-- Logic is where you mix and arrange the recorded material. There is no issue with any latency because Logic calculates all latency while you mix. (In other words, Console takes care of the latency while you track/record. You wouldn't use Console while mixing.)