UA at AES

[stonefree]

I went to the the AES this past weekend and of course went to the UA booth hoping to get some hint of upcoming not yet announced products. I saw Matt Ward and talked to him for a bit. He's a real nice guy, he recognized my name (presumably from the forum), and gave good insight into the directions UA is going. Here's a recap.

-On the next gen new UAD card : I told him I was really hoping for an announcement. He said it will definitely be out before next year's AES. He said UA doesn't announce products until they're ready to ship, giving the example of TC, which announced a PCIe card before UA but did not actually release it until after UA's PCIe card was already out. So if I was to read between the lines, I would say new hardware will be released sooner rather than later.

-On a portable UAD : He said UA is definitely looking into that as laptops are increasingly replacing desktops for many users. He said UA still doesn't like FireWire, but they do like Express Card as a solution.

-On a tape emulation : He said there's still a lot of elements of tape that no one understands and UA won't relrease a plug unless they really get it right.

 

[makinghits]

umm.. that's a retarded statement on tape simulation. McDSP understands it pretty well. even if it's not 100% exact, it makes such a difference working with it. Give the people what they want

 

[Akis]

McDSP sounds nothing like tape to me.

 

[makinghits]

it's better then anything else out there

 

[Akis]

it's better then anything else out there

I recently did a shootout and compared every possible tape emulation plug-in I could find against a real tape machine (Otari MTR-90) and AC2 was a bloody dissapointment. IMHO, there's much better and cheaper stuff out there than that. I hope to upload a listening test within a week; feel free to participate.

 

[Eric Dahlberg]

Being better than Vintage Warmer, Magneto, & Colortone isn't much of an accomplishment.

Hey Akis, since you're the expert now, maybe I'll bring my Portico with me the next time in town & we can do a little listening test.

 

[makinghits]

let's hear the test! which plugs are better in your opinion? all I know is whenever I do use McDSP and slowTools, my mix comes together much easier. I don't think anyone around here would be crying about it if UA could match or beat McDSP

 

[Akis]

Hey Akis, since you're the expert now, maybe I'll bring my Portico with me the next time in town & we can do a little listening test.

Sounds like a plan!

@makinghits: I won't say anything till the test; it may just be my opinion after all. I'll be very interested to hear other people's opinions.

 

[guitarz]

Thanks for the update, stonefree. Very cool.

Oh, and I'll save y'all a minute of searching...

Five months until the next AES - March 15, 2007

 

[Akis]

Hey Akis, since you're the expert now, maybe I'll bring my Portico with me the next time in town & we can do a little listening test.

BTW, I'm nowhere near a tape sound expert; this was my first recording to a 2" to be honest, although I paid as much attention as I could and I was lucky enough to have some very experienced and talented people to take advice from.

Re: AC2 and what's better, I must say that first of all, I didn't find any plug that emulates tape to the degree that, let's say UAD1176LN emulates a real UREI 1176 (great job, UA!). There were specific aspects of the tape sound that I thought AC2 failed to emulate like transient response and tape distortion when you hit it really hard - yeah, in most of my recordings to tape the levels were HOT! :mrgreen: Some plugs offered more control over those, but then again they lacked other tape characteristics. Yet, none was as expensive as AC2; I can tolerate a $90 plug-in to sound just close to tape, or even better one that was free, but not a $500 plug-in - OK, you get AC1 with it, too, but still... With the $90 one you get another 4 lovely plugs!

I have some more tests to run and then I'll upload some stuff for you to listen and draw your own conclusions. Up till now, though, my biggest complain is that no plug can give me the tape 'sheen', if you know what I mean.

Last thing, kudos to UA for taking the time to develop a real tape emu.

 

[stonefree]

Oh, and I'll sav y'all a minute of searching...

Five months until the next AES - March 15, 2007

Matt was referring to the fall AES (I should have been more specific), though I interpreted his words to mean it'll be sooner rather than later.

Last thing, kudos to UA for taking the time to develop a real tape emu.

Whether or not it will ever be released is another story, since they won't put it out unless it's done right and getting it right has proven very difficult.

 

[fishkid]

I find it very intriguing that technologies that have been around for decades and decades, like tape and vinyl, still prove so illusive when it comes to emulation. There's some magic in those little particles alright. Or maybe we are risking the wrath of the gods by coveting tape emulation plugins.


Stonefree, thanks too for the updates .

 

[MarkE]

[snip]
-On a tape emulation : He said there's still a lot of elements of tape that no one understands and UA won't relrease a plug unless they really get it right.

Hi, The way you've worded that, it gives me the impression that they haven't even started development. Personally, it doesn't bother me, I not particularly interested in it anyway.

Mark

 

[makinghits]

akis I'm a bit disappointed, you recorded to tape ONCE?? I don't think you're entitled to an opinion on this subject. Give yourself a couple hundred more times and then we'll talk again I mean, what's next? U read a science mag and suddenly you're a rocket scientist?

:lol:

 

[Akis]

akis I'm a bit disappointed, you recorded to tape ONCE?? I don't think you're entitled to an opinion on this subject. Give yourself a couple hundred more times and then we'll talk again I mean, what's next? U read a science mag and suddenly you're a rocket scientist?

:lol:

1) I made clear I'm not an expert or anything.

2) I spent a whole month (10 hour sessions every day) recording various kinds of sources at various different levels to see the difference in tone etc. depending on the levels, transient content, frequency range of the source etc. The differences were obvious enough to make the comparison with a digital system (ProTools HD @ 96/24 using the 192 I/O) and the tape emulation plug-ins possible. The tape machine was a 2" 24-track Otari MTR-90 with Quantegy GP9 tape running @ 30ips.

Did I become an expert on tape? Definitely not, I never intended to be one.
Could I hear the sonic differences between the 2 mediums with or without the use of tape emulation? Yes.

PS: All signals were split and recorded to both digital and analog at the same time, leaving the recording medium as the only variable. All this was done as part of my dissertation for my MA in Audio Technology.

 

[Tony Ostinato]

I've been recording to tape since the 60's, and mcdsp isnt even close and im a little shocked anyone would venture forth into that delusion.

and UA's plugin designer is in fact a rocket scientist , having done the work for the hugely awesomely successful cassini mission.


i dont doubt that UA could put out an equivalent plugin today, and im sure UA knows exactly how that would be recieved.

i think they continue to work and wait.

in the meanwhile i'd still just transfer to tape and back rather than use a crude, rudimentary, emulation.

as always , time will tell.

 

[makinghits]

I don't know what kind of tape you guys have worked with, scotch tape maybe? gaffer tape? Right now mcdsp sounds closest to 2\", if there's anything better out there I'd love to hear it, especially non-rtas. McDsp is certainly as close to 2\" as Nigel is to a guitar amp or RealVerb is to a 'real' verb, so stop crying about your accuracy and cheer for UA to get on it.

 

[peter893]

-On the next gen new UAD card : He said UA doesn't announce products until they're ready to ship, giving the example of TC, which announced a PCIe card before UA but did not actually release it until after UA's PCIe card was already out.

HUH? did the UA announce the UAD-1 PCIe card last spring and its just shipping now. :roll: love the runaround.

 

[1176]

Actually, the UAD1e has been shipping for a few months.

 

[Akis]

I don't know what kind of tape you guys have worked with, scotch tape maybe? gaffer tape?

I was perfectly clear about what I used.

[Moderator]Please use real arguments and keep the irony for yourself.[/Moderator]

McDsp is certainly as close to 2" as Nigel is to a guitar amp

Hmm, probably not THAT bad (before you ask: I've been working as a session guitarist for years, teaching for even more and have a few tube amps; Nigel (the amp section) sucks IMHO. YMMV).