UAD-1 Latency

[Dan Duskin]

Could someone explain to me why the latency introduced when inserting a UAD-1 plugin is twice that of insterting a Powercore plugin?

Once you have 4 plugins in a row (chained) on a channel, plus several on a group that channel is sent to, plus several on the mixbuss (not counting sends or input channels)... it adds up QUICK! Before you know it you have serious high latency problems... but I rarely suffer from EXTREME latency when I use powercore plugins.

(one of the major reasons i've been asking for a chainer!!!)

 

[Dan Duskin]

Nobody cares?

 

[Tony Ostinato]

It read slightly intimidating on the first take, maybe theyre scared.

Especially when the reason, and this has been brought up lots of time and unless i'm spacing out this was the last reason we left it with, is:

theres a good reason but nobody knows what it is.

yah, i bet lots of guys wanna post that reply. heh.

maybe someone knows more but it sure aint me.

 

[Dan Duskin]

seems like a driver re-write might be able to resolve it

 

[Akis]

I think if that was the case, they would have done it already.

 

[Trace]

I think if that was the case, they would have done it already.

Its a matter of choice from what I understand. Perhaps they never got acceptable stability goingg with 1x the buffer. It could also be a hardware issue. Maybe there's some advantage to the hardware of the Powercore that allows it to run more stable with only 1x the buffer of added latency.

It doesn't matter to me and obviously many other UAD owners, since its a wildly successful product and the MAIN purpose isn't live or input processing, but mixing and playback.

There are other DSP choice out there for near zero latency DSP. I have an Oasys PCI which can route signals thru the FX and back out with no latency and My Yamaha O1X can do the same. I use those for tracking live and monitoring with FX.

TRACE

 

[Dan Duskin]

In my experiance with software coding... choices are made, yes... but their is almost always a way to make both A & B work at the same time with the same degree of stability... it's just a matter of finding it. My guess is that UA stuck with the 2X design, experimented with 1X (maybe) and didn't get quick results, and so they are still sticking with the 2X design. My point is that it can be done... obviously, or it would not be possible on the powercore.

 

[Tony Ostinato]

Who knows how awful it may have been and what suffering we may have been spared.

maybe its an mpact thing.

sometimes there really is no choice.

you could try searching thru all the other discussions, seems like each time it gets brought up now less is said.

 

[TheHopiWay]

Dan,
I've long wondered the same thing myself but since ADC arrived in my host softwares I've lost the urgency to know. It would still be interesting to hear the scoop though.

 

[Dan Duskin]

My urgency to know is getting stronger... because I keep using more and more DSP to do live-mixes.

 

[Dan Duskin]

BUMP!

This is why I always bump the chainer threads! They either need to cut the latency in half, or provide a chainer.

 

[electro77]

One thing that could help us out would be for the VSTHost designers to give us a latency multiplier feature and for the soundcard developers to give us a choice of lower latencies (lower than 64 buffer). SX and Nuendo already have this on 1 level thanks to the lower latency checkbox which effectively doubles system latency. We need options that quadruple system latency, and even multiplies it higher than that to go along with soundcards that give us 4 8 and 16 buffer latencies..

If you set you ASIO soundcard to 128buffer, and uncheck the lower latency box, your UAD plugs will run at 128 buffer also though the system latency will really be 256 buffer.

This rule applies at all ASIO buffer sizes, so if the soundcard could get your buffersize as low as 32buffer, it would allow us to run UAD plugs at 32buffer while running our systems at 64buffer.

 

[Dan Duskin]

this has always been a little bit confusing. let me see if i understand...

my system latency was set to 512 (using the rme control panel), and lower latency was enabled. 512 = 6ms

when i added a powercore plugin it added an additional 6ms latency, but when i added a uad-1 plugin it added an additional 12ms latency.

now lower latency is unchecked, and i set my system latency to 256 (using the rme control panel). 256 = 3ms

my question:
does this mean my system latency is 6ms (double system latency), and my uad-1 latency is 6ms (double system latency)? and is my powercore latency now 3ms, or 1.5ms?

 

[electro77]

this has always been a little bit confusing. let me see if i understand...

my system latency was set to 512 (using the rme control panel), and lower latency was enabled. 512 = 6ms

when i added a powercore plugin it added an additional 6ms latency, but when i added a uad-1 plugin it added an additional 12ms latency.

I will try to make it less confusing with this example:


When you want 512 latency you should uncheck the lower latency checkbox and set you soundcard to 256 buffer. The result you will get from doing this is that you will have your desired 512buffer latency BUT your UAD plugs will have a latency of 256 buffer just like your soundcard!

 

[Akis]

This results in higher CPU load, though...

 

[Trace]

AS we've brought up MANY times the real solution is a Chainer. Its the only way to effectively limit the latency issue. I can see it adding a lot of new functionality to the UAD-1 platform.

TRACE

 

[Akis]

UA seem to think that even small latency values are not acceptable for tracking and my guess is that this is the reason they don't invest time in the chainer. Joe Bryan had made it clear in the SOS interview that they think of UAD-1 as a mixing/matering product.

On the other hand, the Powercore synths seem to work fine for me at low latencies... :?

 

[Dan Duskin]

i track everything at 3 or 6ms latency in the studio... drums, bass, guitars, vocals, etc...

if the vocalist wants to hear reverb in the cans, i simply grab a reverb plugin and slap it on. if the cans need some compression, i grab a plugin and slap it on. it's EXTREMELY convenient! i never have anyone tell me they hear a delay in the cans... unless i add a uad-1 plugin. i can add a powercore plugin, and nobody seems to notice any latency added to the signal.

 

[Dan Duskin]

BUMP