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UAD neve vs. URS neve

taylor

Active Member
jumping the gun here a bit, but i wanted to start a thread as i think it will be a useful topic...

UAD neve vs. URS neve

i have the URS neve and api and love them... i'm also waiting with my credit card for UA to make the 1073 available...

but now i'm thinking i should wait and hear comparisons between the two.....

so, those of you who will have both, please post your thoughts!!

thank you
 

NuSkoolTone

Established Member
I am quite interested in this as well as I use the URS plugs. I think they do the job well, but dont' really \"color\" the sound as much as one would expect. That could be because it's JUST the EQ section and we're not hearing the pres going in as well? I'm curious if UAD's version will have more \"Color\" similar to the pultec but in it's own way....
 

taylor

Active Member
that's right.. the UAD's will have the pre-amp.. yes?

does that mean we can insert the plug, just for a volume/color boost? or will they be color free?

hmmm....

the demo will tell all!
 

Tony Ostinato

Active Member
all we can do for now is watch the webzine videos.
 

Eric Dahlberg

Purveyor of musical dreams fullfilled.
taylor said:
that's right.. the UAD's will have the pre-amp.. yes?
I don't think it does, actually, though the modeled output transformer should add a good amount of color of its own.
 

speedbird

Member
I do have a pair of real Neve 1073's. While I do like the sound of the URS Neve I don't think it captures the sound of a real 1073 very well.

Let's see how the UAD-1 version will do. I'm sure it will be a significant step forward for plugin emulations as usual with UA.
 

electro77

Venerated Member
I think by now it should be Real Neve vs UAD Neve @ 192Khz.
 

diggo

Member
Unlike many, I personally don't particularly like the URS plugins and remain suspicious of that company in general. When I last looked, URS was
an \"internet only company\" which had the plugins made by a third party offering cheap coding services...and URS appears to be essentially a husband/wife marketing operation linked to Bobby Nathan's defunct http://www.uniquerecording.com/ studio. It's a bit like
Roger Nicholls and his much lamented foray into \"buying out\" the Elemental
Audio plugins, rebranding them and flogging them for higher prices -
marketing, pure and simple.
At least UA do their own coding...but I hear from reliable sources (which must remain anonymous) that even UA sometimes use bloated, DSP hungry generic code (and various wrappers) within their algorithms - I have no way of verifying or discounting this however, (unless \"Doctor\" David Berners Lee cares to participate in this thread) but it seems to make some sense, given the speed with which UA release cross platform software...
Making superb code takes a LONG time, which mostly doesnt fit within marketing imperatives. Algorithmix, as one example, took years to design their EQ algorithms. As a result, the Algorithmix EQs are light years ahead of any plugin EQs on the market, period. But Algorithmix could only manage this by having monetary \"buffers\" generated from various unrelated OEM projects during the development period.
UA have a continual process of dev/release, dev/release, seemingly every few months. To me, this seems too fast to allow for the absolute best in algorithm quality and efficiency. In this respect, UA is as much about marketing as URS. That said, I fully respect the need for software companies to do this in order to survive - it is all about cash flow, eh? There aint no subsidies or incentives out there for companies to take the time really required to develop algorithms of the quality of (say) Weiss or Algorithmix. The only thing companies such as UA and URS need to achieve is beautiful looking interfaces plus fairly good audio processing quality - this keeps the vast majority of the market happy and ensures the most important thing of all to software companies: re-sales to their existing customer base.
Dont get me wrong here - I own 4 UAD1 cards and have paid for all the plugins. I regularly use the dynamics tools. I'm not particularly fond of the EQ tools, but then I own all of the Algorithmix plugins - the new Blue sets a high quality benchmark for analogue modelling, with the simple, brilliant GUI used for the Red and Orange (no need for expensive, cumbersome facsimiles of hardware faceplates/controls). Even so, I have found uses for the UA EQs.
Perhaps the Neve plugins will set a new \"quality\" benchmark within the UAD range. After all, they MUST surpass the URS versions, or the release will be seen as a failure. Soon enough, we will know.

Sean
 

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
URS IS NOT A 1073!

Everyone, the URS plug is NOT \"modeled\" after a 1073, it's styled after a 1084. (EDITED AFTER BEING CORRECTED BY RESONANT ALIEN)

URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1084, NOT a 1073!



Sorry for the brief rant.
 

coolout

Member
Re: URS IS NOT A 1073!

Matt Hepworth said:
Everyone, the URS plug is NOT "modeled" after a 1073, it's styled after a 1081. After the UA 1081 comes out, THEN let's ask the question.

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!



Sorry for the brief rant.
what's diff the between the 1081 and 1073?
 

lordward

Active Member
Re: URS IS NOT A 1073!

coolout said:
Matt Hepworth said:
Everyone, the URS plug is NOT "modeled" after a 1073, it's styled after a 1081. After the UA 1081 comes out, THEN let's ask the question.

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!



Sorry for the brief rant.
what's diff the between the 1081 and 1073?
Ooh, about 8......
 

jcat

Active Member
Re: URS IS NOT A 1073!

lordward said:
coolout said:
Matt Hepworth said:
Everyone, the URS plug is NOT "modeled" after a 1073, it's styled after a 1081. After the UA 1081 comes out, THEN let's ask the question.

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!



Sorry for the brief rant.
what's diff the between the 1081 and 1073?
Ooh, about 8......

Hehehe... :lol:



Cheers,

jcat
 

lordward

Active Member
Re: URS IS NOT A 1073!

jcat said:
lordward said:
coolout said:
Matt Hepworth said:
Everyone, the URS plug is NOT "modeled" after a 1073, it's styled after a 1081. After the UA 1081 comes out, THEN let's ask the question.

URS is styled after a 1081, NOT a 1073!
Sorry for the brief rant.
what's diff the between the 1081 and 1073?
Ooh, about 8......

Hehehe... :lol:



Cheers,

jcat
You wouldn't laugh if you knew I had to use a calculater to figure that one out.... (doh!) ](*,)
 

polygen

Active Member
i think the differences boil down to:

1) the 1073 is a pure class A device, the 1081 a class A/B ; this results in slightly different basic sound or \"attitude\"

2) the 1073 has a high shelf, one semi-parametric mid band, a low shelf with switchable frequencies and a (fabulous) HPF. The 1081 features
The EQ section has four bands and high and low pass filters. The high frequency band provides five switchable frequencies and provides a continuously variable 18 dB cut or boost. A switch selects either shelving or peaking curve. The high frequency presence band provides 10 switchable frequencies and provides a continuously variable 18 dB cut or boost. The HiQ switch alters the Q from a broad to a narrow band. The low frequency presence band provides 10 switchable frequencies and provides a continuously variable 18 dB cut or boost. As with the high frequency presence band, the HiQ switch alters the Q from a broad to a narrow band. The low frequency band provides five switchable frequencies and provides a continuously variable 18dB cut or boost. The filters each offer five switchable frequencies and a slope of 18dB per octave.
(taken from http://www.proaudioreview.com/january05 ... fier.shtml)
 

contramark

Active Member
-from the info given in 'Ask the Doctors' of this months webzine they comment on some interesting issues that I dont think URS have adressed or ever will. first being the self-resonances of the magnetics that make the 1073. According to the info of the zine, the eq actually adapts and changes based upon some insane mathematics of magnetic properties i will prolly never understand. the eq is not a straightforward RC filter circuit but rather a much more complex device that i think UA will represent. Also they talk about a small phase shift in high and low ends of the unit as well as the transformer sound. Im excited.
 

Resonant Alien

Active Member
contramark said:
-from the info given in 'Ask the Doctors' of this months webzine they comment on some interesting issues that I dont think URS have adressed or ever will. first being the self-resonances of the magnetics that make the 1073.
What makes you think that URS didn't model this same behavior? I have seen no evidence either way that they did or did not, so to assume they did not would be irresponsible, unless you have evidence that they didn't

Everyone, the URS plug is NOT "modeled" after a 1073, it's styled after a 1081. After the UA 1081 comes out, THEN let's ask the question.
Actually, it's not......the URS N Series is modeled after a Neve 1084, not a 1073 or a 1081, but the point is valid - you guys are not comparing Apples to Apples (Ok, maybe they are both apples, but one is a Granny Smith and the other is a Fiji)....this is especially since the UA plug isn't even available to listen to yet.....

When I last looked, URS was an "internet only company" which had the plugins made by a third party offering cheap coding services...and URS appears to be essentially a husband/wife marketing operation linked to Bobby Nathan's defunct http://www.uniquerecording.com/ studio.
And your point is......???? So what if they only sell plugs on the internet. So what if Bobby Nathan doesn't write every line of code himself. So what if he is in business with his wife. What does any of this have to do with the quality of the plugs?? I have his EQs - they sound amazing and they work in a lot of places that a Pultec doesn't cut it, they are CPU efficient and they don't cause my DAW to crash, so what do I care how he gets the plugs written or how he sells them. The reality is that when it comes to selling plugins, UAD is an "Internet Only" company too - you can't buy a Precision Limiter from Sweetwater. And who says that the 3rd party developers URS uses are any better or worse at writing code than UA engineers? Geez.

Bottom line is that I'm sure the UAD Neve 1073 will sound amazing...just like all the other UA plugs (except for RealVerb and CS1), and the URS plugs also sound amazing. Right now, I'm preferring the URS plugs because (1) No one has heard the UA plug, (2) I already have the URS plugs, and (3) I can run the URS plug on a new Mac without having to rebuy my UA cards in PCIe version.
 

diggo

Member
Diggo said:
When I last looked, URS was an "internet only company" which had the plugins made by a third party offering cheap coding services...and URS appears to be essentially a husband/wife marketing operation linked to Bobby Nathan's defunct http://www.uniquerecording.com/ studio.
Resonant Alien said:
And your point is......???? So what if they only sell plugs on the internet. So what if Bobby Nathan doesn't write every line of code himself. So what if he is in business with his wife. What does any of this have to do with the quality of the plugs?? I have his EQs - they sound amazing .
no they dont. Pretty good mids, crappy top end consistent with the dated algorithms used. But hey, if you (and lots of other people) think they are amazing (or should that say "really WANT them to be amazing"), who am I to argue? Their bitmaps sure are beautiful...

and my point: marketing is a powerful tool. So are wonderful graphics. But double-blind test your URS EQs against other EQ plugins - you may be surprised...

Resonant Alien said:
and they work in a lot of places that a Pultec doesn't cut it,
the UA Pultec? One of UA's least successful implementations, with an obvious high frequency rolloff due to flaws/compromises in the algorithm. Not a plugin I would use at all, really.

Resonant Alien said:
they are CPU efficient and they don't cause my DAW to crash, so what do I care how he gets the plugs written or how he sells them. The reality is that when it comes to selling plugins, UAD is an "Internet Only" company too - you can't buy a Precision Limiter from Sweetwater. And who says that the 3rd party developers URS uses are any better or worse at writing code than UA engineers? Geez.
Umm, I'm pretty sure UA themselves would _claim_ they are "at least as good, if not better" at writing code than the sub-contractor for URS, Frank Filipanits Jr's Cool Stuff Labs (Frank graduated from Caltech around '92: http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~franko/bio.html). Of course, UA sing loudly that Doctor David has worked for NASA (along with many, many other good code warriors of course...), but that means little to me. The URS code apparently contains old copy/pasted algorithms which have been around for 20 years, according to developers who KNOW (hence the dodgy top end of the URS plugs). Apparently the UA code may also contain a variety of long outdated algorithms. This is unsurprising given the rapid release schedules of these companies. The developer I source some of my info from remains un-named firstly because I havent obtained his permission to copy/paste his comments....secondly because the messenger is not important (the message itself is what should be tested)...and thirdly because what actually matters is whether your own tests accord with what he is saying, not who he is. My tests accord 100% with what he has written on this subject.
Some quotes from the un-named developer for you to consider:

"About the URS EQ line:

An analog emulation cannot be claimed since even the most basic problems of such an attempt are not addressed. No bell band of their EQ series is able to produce a gain in nyquist. The bell responses are clamped in old fashioned nyquist limited style and produce zero gain at nyquist. Does not sound like it could help air, does it? Completely asymmetric and badly sounding if you ask me. No analog eq behaves like that. And most cheap digital eqs do not have the problem. Waves REQ etc. (Waves Q10 has it if you want to know how the problem looks). The DSP knowledge required to solved that problem is very minimal. There are papers on the subject, quite a few years old. Any kid knows that by now but not the URS guys. This is public domain DSP and does not require research or anything. It is out there and engineers should be aware of it.

If you ask me, the URS EQ series is a product of badly executed work for hire labour. Making money on the backs of real engineers of the previous decades is not my idea of engineering."

(to be continued...)
 

diggo

Member
continued from previous post:
(ie quotes from the un-named developer...)

\"If you ask me, the URS EQ series is a product of badly executed work for hire labour. Making money on the backs of real engineers of the previous decades is not my idea of engineering.

If the bandwidth on the right of the bell curve deteriorates to 1/3 of what it is on the analog outboard and somebody thinks this is accurate enough, it's not my problem. All EQs are similar really and there are always people that like one or the other.

The quality of the URS processing is ok. But this is just generic (20yo digital) eq with a different control style with all the usual flaws in the treble area. There are at least 5 alternatives at 1/10 the price. If you find the control style useful that's one thing. But under the hood it's just a generic eq. It's a nyquist limited eq and the bandwidth increases a lot when moving to high treble. Everything shrinks and gets steeper from about 2khz and up.

We (the developer's company) only test plugins if they claim modeling. When somebody makes a claim it has to be justified. In other industries there are laws about false claims. The URS series goes too far in copying the user interface of the analog counterparts, so somebody should check what's going on under the hood. URS is careful enough to not publish a single measurement of frequency response so the user has to be believe what he sees or thinks he is hearing while looking at the user interface. I'm glad many people did test and that eventually reached my mail box. I got two sets of identical measurements from two fellow developers.

You might not have thought of this, but you could hire Frank Filipanits Jr to do your own series of plugins and you could start your own DSP company overnight as many do these days:) You don't need to do your own research, you don't need to invest much of your time. Outsource everything, even your dsp. Generic code is probably good enough for anything. And work for hire is the way to go these days, since as Frank advertises:

\"our unique expertise and library of custom additions to Digi's SDK allow us to generate state-of-the-art products, with eye-catching GUIs and the shortest development time around.\"

Fill in the contact form. This is the ticket to your dreams:

\"What do you want to see as the next cheap, cool product from
Cool Stuff Labs?
(Please be as detailed as possible)\"

http://www.coolstufflabs.com/feedback.html

<end quote from developer>

But URS and UA no longer matter, now that Roger Nicholls has made Elemental Audio plugins twice as good simply by replacing the GUIs and changing the names!
Go buy Roger's plugins - I'm sure they are also amazing.

Sean
 

Matt Hepworth

Master of the UADiverse
Forum Admin
Moderator
Resonant Alien said:
contramark said:
Actually, it's not......the URS N Series is modeled after a Neve 1084, not a 1073 or a 1081, but the point is valid - you guys are not comparing Apples to Apples (Ok, maybe they are both apples, but one is a Granny Smith and the other is a Fiji)....this is especially since the UA plug isn't even available to listen to yet.....
You, sir, are correct! My mistake.
 
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